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Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1387943)
Well, it's good to see the arguments have devolved even more. Most of the arguments are now at the level of "well, if Billy gets a Snickers then I get a Snickers." You are all over the map so I will try to answer some of these ridiculous points.
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1387943)
First, I don't know anything about any dinner, I was answering questions about the ALPA President's compensation.
Carl |
Originally Posted by Check Essential
(Post 1388012)
Just to repeat what others have said-
The problem is not with the local councils. I think most of us would acknowledge that the local guys work very hard and are not riding some gravy train. Its a far different situation in Herndon. I think most of us feel that those people in the permanent bureaucracy up there are not being good stewards of our dues money. The high end dinners and hospitality suites are not even the problem. The really big money is spent on consultants, lawyers, lobbyists and the various other parasites that attach themselves to any massive "department" up there in Washington. Its grown into a business that is more interested in sustaining itself than looking after the interests of the little guys who pay the dues. ALPA National spent $187,545,999.00 last year. They take 2% of our pay every single month. The magazine is nice but I just don't feel like I'm getting my money's worth. To add, it has been my observation some of the National Admin spend most of their effort acting as a sort of Praetorian Guard. How is it that an attorney can provide advice to the TWA MEC which results in a jury finding harm, yet despite what is alleged to be an existential threat to the survival of the association, the same counsel is advising it is "not a concern" of the Delta pilots that another pilot labor group did a deal with Delta management? If the trial was still pending on whether I had screwed up so badly that my actions might put the Company completely out of business, I doubt any employer would keep me in position. Especially if that position was representation of their largest client and home of the President. The TWA litigation was given some perspective anecdotally by a group of express pilots who had coalesced around the notion that ALPA could again be sued for DFR failure as a result of the Pinnacle deal and Comair's demise. When they approached attorneys to advance their allegations they were told even if they did have a cause for action that ALPA would have no money to pay. In the case of the firm pursuing the TWA litigation, they advised it would be a conflict of interest for their firm to represent the new group of plaintiffs because ALPA lacked the capacity to pay the expected judgements against it. It is most likely the law firms thought, as I do, that there really isn't a case worth pursuing; even thought the facts probably support the allegation, there were not any real damages. Therefore a conflict of interest is a good reason to avoid a case you don't want to waste time on. But, if the Plaintiffs' counsel was being sincere :mad: |
They have not approached DALPA and there are no plans to do so. Not sure where your info comes from or who you heard it from. As far as 50 seaters both Airbus and Boeing regularly take trades and have a marketing arm to move those aircraft. Both Airbus and Boeing will look at their options in taking those aircraft and decide what it is worth for them to pick up a rumored 6.6 billion dollar order. They may decide they don't want them and not respond to the RFP. That is why you put out a RFP. They may have a customer for the aircraft and decide to offer 2 million each in trade or 10,000 dollars each in trade. In the end Delta will negotiate for the best deal they can and Boeing and Airbus will try to get the order if they can make a profit. They might even be willing to take a loss at this point because whoever gets the Bridge widebody order will probably have a leg up for the follow on replacement widebody order which is where the big money will be. |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1388020)
Yet you go on to justify these dinners you know nothing about. It's indefensible and wholly inappropriate. We are not fat cats, we are union labor. When we lobby fat cats, and look like fat cats ourselves in the process, we look corrupt. We look like a handful of union fat cats trying to hang with the real fat cats by spending the money of union members. It's unseemly and it doesn't help our cause, it hurts it. We look like hypocrites that can't argue our case on the merits. Carl like alpha has, you simply don't know how dc works. Son, we live in a world with walls. Those wallls have to be defended by people with guns. Who's going to do that? You? You, FTB. I have a greater responsibility you can't even fathom. You weep for...oh wait, never mind. |
Originally Posted by TANSTAAFL
(Post 1388027)
Good explanation, and am glad we wont be approached for relief.
Management asking for scope relief is like us asking for a raise ... I have absolutely no doubt we will be approached. None. I hope we will handle it as well as we did in Contract 2012 (and I think we handled that exchange well). |
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1387943)
Well, it's good to see the arguments have devolved even more. Most of the arguments are now at the level of "well, if Billy gets a Snickers then I get a Snickers." You are all over the map so I will try to answer some of these ridiculous points.
First, I don't know anything about any dinner, I was answering questions about the ALPA President's compensation. Second, I commute up to DTW and when I have to buy a hotel room I get a room at the Courtyard because I have my points with them. I pay for the hotel like every other commuter. Here is the difference, when I am watching ESPN in the Courtyard I don't have any US Senators or Congressmen in there. I am not lobbying to try to protect the US piloting profession from being handed over to Emirates. If you can't see the difference then there is no point in further discussion. The ALPA President has to have a place to entertain important guests and it is not going to be at the Airport Ramada in Herndon. There is not enough money in the world to make me want to do that job. Sorry, but that is how real business works. Third, when I did ALPA work a typical week would be to drop a 21 hour trip and then work 50 or 60 hours. So I just have to laugh when you try to paint ALPA work as some sort of princely duty. It sucks, it is harder than flying the line, it never stops, and you make much less money. How many of you guys fly 30 or 40 hours a week for Delta and don't take any flight pay? I thought so. I run a consulting business and here is how a real business works. When they require me to be away from home I charge them for travel time to and from my home. I charge them for the hotel where I stay. I charge them for the airfare. I charge them for the meals. I charge them at least 8 hours a day or what I work. There is nothing that gets done for free. Conference call - charge it. Run a quick analysis at home - charge it. They gladly pay as this is the way business works. My wife quit her job last year and my total income was up massively from 2011. That's because, even for only half a year, I charged someone every hour I worked. No more freebies. If I flew a trip then Delta paid the bill if I was working for my clients then they paid the bill. It is amazing how much more money you can make when you are not working for free. This year is going to be much better than the last. In 2011 my hours per month were in the bottom 30% of the pilot group, not this year. This April I will work half the number of hours I did last April and my pay will be double. It is conversations like this that just make me even more happy that I am not doing ALPA work anymore. There is nothing more frustrating than putting in unpaid hour after unpaid hour and then being accused of being a thief by the people you are working for. Why don't you ask Nu Guy or ACL about how many hours they work uncompensated? I am sure their eyes have been opened. I doubt a day goes by that they don't do some ALPA work. So yes, it is different for the ALPA President. The guys that are lobbying for Emirates probably get $1,000 an hour and entertain Congressmen at the Ritz. They have an unlimited entertainment budget. They wouldn't even blink at spending $500, 600 or 1,000 a head for dinner. Emirates is spending millions. If you can't see how we need to invest a teeny fraction of our income in protecting our careers then heaven help you. So please continue on with the ALPA bashing I know it makes you all very happy. I have work to do for my clients and yes they are getting charged for every minute. That is how real business works. It is so much more lucrative not having to work for free. Seeing as there are strict guidelines on how PAC funds are both collected and used, it would seem that billing such a lavish dinner to the association would be inappropriate. I'm not overally fixating on the dinner here, and part of me understand exactly where your coming from. My displeasure is more with how business gets done in Washington, and neither you, I, or ALPA will ever change that. ALPA is in the position of having to work within that system and nobody will change that from within ALPA. Listen, I've been overally critical to guys like you and Sailing in the past and I personally I'm tired of attacking people I disagree with. (Too much energy, and I'm too lazy for it) We have 11,000+ type A personalities here, and I'm sure most of us all think we could do a better job and negotiate a better TA. Criticizing and blaming are the easiest things to do, so I try to focus on facts rather than rhetoric. I do think our organization's president is over compensated, just as I think our congressmen, senators, and sitting president is over compensated. Nothing will change my perspective on that. It's all about perspective, and I'm sure many people think our profession is over compensated. |
In my old corporate job our office's litigation budget ran into the hundreds of millions of dollars. Of course that attracted lawyers who took out to a lot of fancy dinners hoping to get our business. Those who actually got our business are the attorneys that thought outside the box and who found some common ground. (ie, if the annual gets done on our airplane I'll be enjoying a beer at Sun and Fun with Counsel who will ensure we have beer and good seats at an air show this weekend)
Fancy French food just gives me gas. Get me a $4 BBQ sandwich with Bob Hoover, or left overs with Mike and Karin Goulian ... If I recall one of the most effective lobbying stories in airline labor was the United pilot who would show up and go running with his Senator. In others words, free and cheap stuff is most effective if you're smart. If you're spending a pile of money just to entertain yourself and your own staff ... then you are doing it wrong. Again I stress, ALPA is a service organization, or at least it should be. I would think spending a ton of money on dinner sends exactly the wrong message (not that I care that much about the bill, just the result). |
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1387943)
Second, I commute up to DTW and when I have to buy a hotel room I get a room at the Courtyard because I have my points with them. I pay for the hotel like every other commuter. Here is the difference, when I am watching ESPN in the Courtyard I don't have any US Senators or Congressmen in there. I am not lobbying to try to protect the US piloting profession from being handed over to Emirates. If you can't see the difference then there is no point in further discussion. The ALPA President has to have a place to entertain important guests and it is not going to be at the Airport Ramada in Herndon. There is not enough money in the world to make me want to do that job. Sorry, but that is how real business works.
Lee fought extremely hard to get this job that is based in DC. He should have a home paid for out of his salary in that base. His home should be commensurate with what he can afford. It lends credibility to the clients you feel need personal entertainment. To do otherwise hurts the cause.
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1387943)
Third, when I did ALPA work a typical week would be to drop a 21 hour trip and then work 50 or 60 hours.
Carl |
Yikes. Is ALPA going to fight Obama on this? Obama to propose cap on tax-friendly IRAs for the rich - Apr. 10, 2013
President Obama on Wednesday is expected to announce a plan that would prohibit individuals from reaping tax advantages on IRAs and other tax-preferred retirement accounts when the funds exceed $3 million. |
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1387943)
I run a consulting business and here is how a real business works. When they require me to be away from home I charge them for travel time to and from my home. I charge them for the hotel where I stay. I charge them for the airfare. I charge them for the meals. I charge them at least 8 hours a day or what I work. There is nothing that gets done for free. Conference call - charge it. Run a quick analysis at home - charge it. They gladly pay as this is the way business works.
Carl |
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