You know, this might be a business opportunity. 80 could start a "How to make PA's that make the flight attendants swoon." school for pilots. I bet the new Elvis could come up with done good marketing pics. :)

Ron;

I have no doubt about your convictions being genuine.

We are either organized labor or we are not. If the TRUE goal of DALPA was to raise the bar for us:

-The negotiators would have been directed to walk away from the table during this past negotiation.
-The strike mobilization committee would have been put to work.
-The policy manual would have been followed and reps would have been allowed to actually give direction.

I am required, because of agency shop, to pay dues to an organization that does not completely look after my interests. I am not proposing that there is a better CBA out there either, just stating a fact as I see it. I support the PAC and am personally pleased with several of their recent victories. I feel that our DALPA admin is in this for their own agendas and not for the best interests of the line pilot. Unfortunately they continue to have the power.

I don't know if I'm some weird outlier either. I am informed, but IMO, we are either grossly outgunned or we have acquiesced all of our negotiation ability due to outsourcing, maybe both.

No offense to Elvis, but I think Gunshipguy should be our marketting department...:D

This is such a general statement that it is hard to oppose. How do you define "completely"? Are you saying that if you personally (and you--and I--are just one of thousands) did not get every little thing that you did wanted, that therefore your union leadership is wanting? If so, then you will be sorely disappointed regardless of the name of your bargaining agency.

Sometimes I am reminded of pilot A who will say, full of conviction, "If concessions are ever needed, just give up pay. Once given up, you can't ever get back work rules, and the IRS still hasn't figured out how to tax a day off."

Then pilot B will immediately chime in and reply "BS! Work rules don't pay the mortage. Work rules don't buy the groceries. Work rules don't get my kid into the better schools, etc. Only pay will. If you have to give something up, give up work rules."

I have heard exact point/counter-point conversations just like this. What is a union to do with a finite pie, but infinite expectations of the membership?

Well, that's the problem. ALPA told DAL pilots how big the overall pie was and how much of a slice we could get. Now what we are seeing is that the pie is much larger than we were told and other slices are being cut much larger than before. Some new slices are even being cut. So, some pilots are left to wonder did ALPA seriously misjudge the pie size, or due partially to constructive engagement intentionally misrepresent the pie and slice size to the membership?

I'm saying either option is an F.

I expect this from the Co, but not my union.

I disagree. Paying a dividend gets Delta one step closer to being investment grade. Mutual funds and other institutional investors will now look at DAL as a possible investment precisely because they pay a dividend. How many of you though about buying DAL when this was announced? I know I thought about buying some more while it is still relatively cheap. ($ wise, not necessarily $/earnings wise)

As far as stock buybacks go, both Buffett and Cramer like them, but I have yet to be convinced as to their actual benefit to the corporation. If DAL was going to buy back stock, I would think they would have wanted to do it when the price were down in the mid teens...

+1 well said. (Just another voice in the wilderness)

Didn't they merge? :D

If we do merge with Alaska, do their contracts/agreements with AA immediately cease or could Delta pilots one day be flying AA passengers?

Listened to a discussion about this last night in the ATL lounge. Premise of the discussion was that if we had voted no or the negotiators were sent back and we went into a protracted section 6 what then would have happened. If I understand everything correctly (eavesdropping) we could have been in a situation where we would still have no contract today; the virgin atlantic deal would still have happened as Delta don't need our permission, the stock buyback and dividend would still have happened as Delta don't need our permission and the announced it last year before the amendable date.

We would likely be fighting a public relations campaign where Delta says they offered a substantial raise to the pilots who kicked it back and now want to take away the dividends the investors want and money need to make the company profitable. The virgin and stock slices of the pie was going with or without us. We would still be stuck with the remaining pie which isn't really much different than it was last year. Leftover pie and crust.

I don't see any way that we'd ever be unified enough with the independent union boyz still running around the 4th floor trying to get a vote going and a way to get any of the pie that Delta already planned on spending that we could not stop even if we wanted to.

In the section 6 we'd be in now how do you figure you could have stopped either of those or gotten any of the money from them?