You folks? I guess because I asked legitimate questions that I'm now an apologist? Calm down from what? You added the RAPEM3 emotions above. There's a major problem with a group that says that ALPA FPL is bad yet seeks to increase it for the DPA going forward.

I bullet pointed the facts supporting my one major issue. I have one issue and one issue only. That is that the plan the DPA has to improve and do better than ALPA is flawed to the point that I don't believe it's a real plan at all. Are you really unable to address the DPA constitution using any one of the bullet points? The DPA is saying ALPA sucks. They are saying they will be better. The "better" plan currently isn't better, it's worse. Well the items I looked at are worse. The current DPA plan does not make for a better ALPA sans ALPA. It's a mess.

Go back and look at the fact that Tim writes emails saying that "DPA assured the decision makers that DELTA PILOTS DO NOT BEAR ANY INDIVIDUAL LIABILITY in the damages outcome, a position confirmed publicly by ALPA" and yet a few days later was saying the TWA trial will affect you financially. Which is it? Did he lie to us or lie to the bank? You can't assure a bank that there's no personal liability and then turn around and tell the DPA members that there is. Maybe Tim doesn't write all the updates?

Here's the bullet points again, and these are just the glaring issues:

• DPA announces dues will be lowered to anywhere between 1%-1.75% depending on where you read the website yet the constitution says they will go up without MEMRAT to 2.25% next year. ALPA can't raise dues today without a vote.
• They say that FPL is bad yet they increased FPL for all volunteers including those that don't get FPL like that today over today's limits and pay for it out of the budget since they will take that money value assigned to the contract and spread it amongst the pilots. No, wait, make that the reps as the FPL is going up the money would go to them not the CBA.
• USAPA payed over $7 million in legal fees to SSM&P in less than 4 years after the vote. SSMP&P is charging 50% of their $250 fee, per their contract, with the rest outstanding after certification, yet the DPA has mysteriously paid a number so small that it can only be called incidental costs from the DPA logs. Where's the legal bill?
• There's a second law firm on the DPA books that has charged more to the DPA than SSM&P so far. Who could that be possible?
• New hires, pilots returning from disability and MILOA can't be reps for 2 years, nor could a pilot from a merged airline because of the 2 year good standing rule
• New hires have to pay a maintenance fee their first year. Not about money, right?
• Look through the USAPA LM2 and see the 6 figure employees they have. You want to know why? That's what good help costs today.
• "A contract which is understandable, enforceable and beneficial to both parties and should not exceed 200 pages." Really? Beneficial to the company? An iron clad 200 pages?
• Voting on everything and everybody. Where will you find the time?
• 25% of the pilots in a block to get a resolution passed vs simply majority at an LEC today? Harder to use the pilots will.

You highlighted the USAPA stuff as if it were irrelevant. It's not. There is a significant law bill due after certification. I want (under the guise of transparency) to know how much that final 100% bill is going to be. Looking through the financials the DPA hasn't been billed for the 50% yet, let alone the balance due.



It's a straw man of wicker man proportions to say that the DPA will be immune from lawsuits of any kind and in particular the DFR. The $7 million in fees that SSM&P billed USAPA at $140,000 per month is relevant because I want to know that a similar bill isn't coming to us. I know the USAPA guys have extenuating circumstances but we could have a merger that doesn't fly with guys too and that will generate more lawsuits. It's not out of the realm of discussion that the new law firm, which is due monies upon certification, may end up charging as much as our current lawyers.

Facts have been presented. Where did anyone backpedal? Can you provide numbers to support your claim?

For people who like this kind of thing. Can't you see the FO yawning from here?

Asked and answered numerous times. Recalling reps doesn't matter because Mr. Moak has yet again proven that reps don't matter. Our union under Mr. Moak has no local control of itself whatsoever. Mr. Moak continues to foster outsourcing of our jobs in his vain attempt to gain worldwide control of the pilot labor market. I have no say, you have no say, and our reps have no say. When you understand that, you'll understand I have no interest in chasing my tail "fixing ALPA from within" when there is so much work left to do in freeing ourselves from an ALPA so set on giving away our treasure to reach its goal.

Carl

He's bored. He so used to working his butt off in the B737, that he doesn't know what to do now that he sits under a modern overhead panel with a lights out concept. :D

I see his legs daintily crossed, sipping a glass of wine with his pinky in the air, and placing it back down next to his cheese spead on his tray table. :)

At Delta? The July 01, 2001 seniority list showed 10,144 pilots.

Yeah, I'm all for teaching a guy to fish, but was a bit irked he didn't even tell me where the fishing pole was (what page on deltanet etc.)--BB finally posted that. And I very often modify my opinions based on posts from slow and alfa, when they are calm and informative.

However, YOU and BB both posted some very good discussion in the last few pages with numbers of fleets, some thoughts on what might retire, and what the final numbers might look like--which I truly appreciate! Thanks! You're so dang fast you already replied before I could offset your penalty for "good research".
;)

Dang, I see you've even replied a 2nd time before this! The football penalty metaphor implies tongue in cheek humor, you know? So here:
Very glad about the aircraft announcement, let's all hope for the best and that the scenario plays out as a good amount of growth, though none of us can predict all the variables or how much mgt caution is just sensible management of wall street.
Better? "Go johnso, Go johnso!"

Your bullet points (like the rest of this laundry list) are not facts. They are your opinions and completely mischaracterized writings. You're certainly entitled to your opinions as is Kingsley, but they're not facts. DPA's plans will only be decided upon by a members vote after a successful decertification vote of ALPA. You ALPA no matter what guys will do and/or say ANYTHING to keep that vote from happening. Your panic is actually painful to watch.

Self serving spin and panicked hyperbole won't work for you guys anymore. IMO, you're only hope of keeping ALPA here would be a complete and public repudiation of Mr. Moak and an absolute promise by our local leaders to vote against Moak's reelection, admit to the endemic conflict of interest within ALPA, and provide a clear plan to bring back all Delta branded flying to the Delta pilots seniority list.

You do those things and I'll tear up my DPA card and work for DALPA everyday til I retire.

Carl

A more unfortunate aspect of this is the new winter jackets we're going to have to wear.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41iMJqEeDAL.jpg