Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
12-31-2013 | 03:58 AM
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 284
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Word in the 73 world is that the 75s aren't going anywhere soon. Which makes the -900s growth aircraft for the foreseeable future. That means hiring. And based on the lack of reserve coverage lately on the narrow body's seems to me to be a little late. We can't cover the trips on the books. I was supposed to fly the GDL red eye from LAX to GDL. CA no showed, no green slips and no IAs. The trip went no op and I burned out. Full boat to GDL and no CA 12 hours later. That cost the company a pretty penny. There goes the overmanned theory.
Ships 685 through 6717
Ships 5635 through 5657
Ships 6801 through 6818
The 6800's are being refitted with those lie-flat seats for the JFK runs. And the other birds are suppose to be gutted and refitted with 20 first class seats and seat right around 200 total.
12-31-2013 | 04:15 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,506
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From: 737 ATL
Gunship,
If on the other hand, the company assigns long call trips 19 hours out then I think a reasonable Pilot would acknowledge within 9 hours as before 117. To me this is the key - to allow long call Pilots a long call leash. Like I said, the NLT 3 hours wording in our contract is a means to an end. The desired end is a 9 hour response window.
I see the companies interpretation as unworkable and unreasonable, but I also think that Pilots who want to wait until 3 hours prior if they have 19 hours notice are just as unreasonable. Does anyone really think we would win a grievance if given 19 hours notice prior to reporting and we insist on waiting until 3 hours prior to acknowledging? I realize this is what our contract says, but the change in the law eliminates the option of a 3 hour prior acknowledgement.
The bottom line is that the law has changed. Acknowledging long call assignments in 2 or 3 hours aint gonna cut it - sorry SD. If the company is willing to work with us and push the assignment of trips further out - say 19 hours, then we should work with them. If they insist on a quick long call acknowledgement then we should comply with our contractual requirements.
Scoop
If on the other hand, the company assigns long call trips 19 hours out then I think a reasonable Pilot would acknowledge within 9 hours as before 117. To me this is the key - to allow long call Pilots a long call leash. Like I said, the NLT 3 hours wording in our contract is a means to an end. The desired end is a 9 hour response window.
I see the companies interpretation as unworkable and unreasonable, but I also think that Pilots who want to wait until 3 hours prior if they have 19 hours notice are just as unreasonable. Does anyone really think we would win a grievance if given 19 hours notice prior to reporting and we insist on waiting until 3 hours prior to acknowledging? I realize this is what our contract says, but the change in the law eliminates the option of a 3 hour prior acknowledgement.
The bottom line is that the law has changed. Acknowledging long call assignments in 2 or 3 hours aint gonna cut it - sorry SD. If the company is willing to work with us and push the assignment of trips further out - say 19 hours, then we should work with them. If they insist on a quick long call acknowledgement then we should comply with our contractual requirements.
Scoop
Scoop has just written the arbitrator's decision.
12-31-2013 | 04:59 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,898
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From: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
Gunship,
You are not wrong, but I don't think you understand my point. If the company and the union do not come to agreement and they stick with requiring us to acknowledge long call trips within 2 or 3 hours then I think every reserve Pilot should acknowledge within the contractual requirement - if only to force the company to negotiate with the union. If this makes reserve pilots not legally rested for the trip per 117 then too bad for the company. A company memo does not undue our contract.
If on the other hand, the company assigns long call trips 19 hours out then I think a reasonable Pilot would acknowledge within 9 hours as before 117. To me this is the key - to allow long call Pilots a long call leash. Like I said, the NLT 3 hours wording in our contract is a means to an end. The desired end is a 9 hour response window.
I see the companies interpretation as unworkable and unreasonable, but I also think that Pilots who want to wait until 3 hours prior if they have 19 hours notice are just as unreasonable. Does anyone really think we would win a grievance if given 19 hours notice prior to reporting and we insist on waiting until 3 hours prior to acknowledging? I realize this is what our contract says, but the change in the law eliminates the option of a 3 hour prior acknowledgement.
The bottom line is that the law has changed. Acknowledging long call assignments in 2 or 3 hours aint gonna cut it - sorry SD. If the company is willing to work with us and push the assignment of trips further out - say 19 hours, then we should work with them. If they insist on a quick long call acknowledgement then we should comply with our contractual requirements.
Scoop
You are not wrong, but I don't think you understand my point. If the company and the union do not come to agreement and they stick with requiring us to acknowledge long call trips within 2 or 3 hours then I think every reserve Pilot should acknowledge within the contractual requirement - if only to force the company to negotiate with the union. If this makes reserve pilots not legally rested for the trip per 117 then too bad for the company. A company memo does not undue our contract.
If on the other hand, the company assigns long call trips 19 hours out then I think a reasonable Pilot would acknowledge within 9 hours as before 117. To me this is the key - to allow long call Pilots a long call leash. Like I said, the NLT 3 hours wording in our contract is a means to an end. The desired end is a 9 hour response window.
I see the companies interpretation as unworkable and unreasonable, but I also think that Pilots who want to wait until 3 hours prior if they have 19 hours notice are just as unreasonable. Does anyone really think we would win a grievance if given 19 hours notice prior to reporting and we insist on waiting until 3 hours prior to acknowledging? I realize this is what our contract says, but the change in the law eliminates the option of a 3 hour prior acknowledgement.
The bottom line is that the law has changed. Acknowledging long call assignments in 2 or 3 hours aint gonna cut it - sorry SD. If the company is willing to work with us and push the assignment of trips further out - say 19 hours, then we should work with them. If they insist on a quick long call acknowledgement then we should comply with our contractual requirements.
Scoop
Look, it's tempting to say that we can work with them, but we all know that crew skeds will do anything to cover a trip. What you are suggesting here is that the pilot group voluntarily give up a key quality of life provision in our contract for zero quid, simply because they said so. Well, sorry, that's not going to work for me. And nobody has the right to tell me to do that. I paid for this contract. If the company wants a rolling 2 hour short call leash, then they'll need to negotiate in good faith for it.
And yes, I am confident that every grievance would be won. Slam dunk. The company simply will have to staff with IAs, GS, and short call until this is resolved. And nothing stops a pilot from acknowledging a trip outside the 10 hour window, he simply has the option not to, per the contract, or to be doing something else, such as commuting in for a trip.
What other sections of the contract would you like to ignore?
Last edited by flyallnite; 12-31-2013 at 05:16 AM.
12-31-2013 | 05:32 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,044
Likes: 3
From: Lowest Pay I Could Find
Do you think the company has put off hiring as long as they have because they thought that they would have added crew scheduling abilities/efficiencies through their interpretation of 117?
I'm wondering if between 117 and a 7th short call day if the company perceives a leaner staffing model than actually needed. I find it surprising that we have been canceling flights because of lack of crews. I always thought that kind of thing rarely, if ever, happened at a mainline company especially with our current management team.
I'm wondering if between 117 and a 7th short call day if the company perceives a leaner staffing model than actually needed. I find it surprising that we have been canceling flights because of lack of crews. I always thought that kind of thing rarely, if ever, happened at a mainline company especially with our current management team.
12-31-2013 | 05:36 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: 767A
Work with them? Are they working with us on JV compliance? How about sick leave harassment?
Look, it's tempting to say that we can work with them, but we all know that crew skeds will do anything to cover a trip. What you are suggesting here is that the pilot group voluntarily give up a key quality of life provision in our contract for zero quid, simply because they said so. Well, sorry, that's not going to work for me. And nobody has the right to tell me to do that. I paid for this contract. If the company wants a rolling 2 hour short call leash, then they'll need to negotiate in good faith for it.
And yes, I am confident that every grievance would be won. Slam dunk. The company simply will have to staff with IAs, GS, and short call until this is resolved. And nothing stops a pilot from acknowledging a trip outside the 10 hour window, he simply has the option not to, per the contract, or to be doing something else, such as commuting in for a trip.
What other sections of the contract would you like to ignore?
Look, it's tempting to say that we can work with them, but we all know that crew skeds will do anything to cover a trip. What you are suggesting here is that the pilot group voluntarily give up a key quality of life provision in our contract for zero quid, simply because they said so. Well, sorry, that's not going to work for me. And nobody has the right to tell me to do that. I paid for this contract. If the company wants a rolling 2 hour short call leash, then they'll need to negotiate in good faith for it.
And yes, I am confident that every grievance would be won. Slam dunk. The company simply will have to staff with IAs, GS, and short call until this is resolved. And nothing stops a pilot from acknowledging a trip outside the 10 hour window, he simply has the option not to, per the contract, or to be doing something else, such as commuting in for a trip.
What other sections of the contract would you like to ignore?
12-31-2013 | 05:44 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2010
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From: A330 A
No that money is already pretax. Should be just like making a rollover to an IRA. (Which I wouldn't be surprised if that was an option when the DC plan is terminated.) The total amount deposited by you and Company cannot exceed $52,000 in 2014. If you are under 50 then you can put a maximum of $17,500 in the 401k. If you turn 50 or older in 2014, you can make catchup contributions totaling $5,500. So anyone turning 50 or older can contribute a total of $22,000 a year. The Company will put in their 15% until reaching a total of $52,000 for the year. If you will exceed that amount for whatever reason the excess will be taxed and paid to you as income.
To me, it doesn't matter if that $52,000 comes from my contribution or the Companys. Whatever money that is in excess of the $52,000 comes back as taxed income anyway.
Denny
To me, it doesn't matter if that $52,000 comes from my contribution or the Companys. Whatever money that is in excess of the $52,000 comes back as taxed income anyway.
Denny
You are right with one small exception. The total amount for one who turns 50 or is older is $23,000 not $22,000. 17.5K + 5.5K = 23K. The only reason I noticed, was that is what I contributed in 2013. I didn't quite reach the 415C Limit ($51K for 2013), but hopefully in 2014. Thanks for your quality posts and good luck in the playoffs.
AP
12-31-2013 | 05:45 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
We certainly would have. It's do or die time for the union too. I can't believe anyone would suggest we just line out a section of the contract for nothing in return. I know it's been said a lot, but maybe not enough... how can we expect improvements in our contract with such a defeatist attitude?
12-31-2013 | 05:49 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2009
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Work with them? Are they working with us on JV compliance? How about sick leave harassment?
Look, it's tempting to say that we can work with them, but we all know that crew skeds will do anything to cover a trip. What you are suggesting here is that the pilot group voluntarily give up a key quality of life provision in our contract for zero quid, simply because they said so. Well, sorry, that's not going to work for me. And nobody has the right to tell me to do that. I paid for this contract. If the company wants a rolling 2 hour short call leash, then they'll need to negotiate in good faith for it.
And yes, I am confident that every grievance would be won. Slam dunk. The company simply will have to staff with IAs, GS, and short call until this is resolved. And nothing stops a pilot from acknowledging a trip outside the 10 hour window, he simply has the option not to, per the contract, or to be doing something else, such as commuting in for a trip.
What other sections of the contract would you like to ignore?
Look, it's tempting to say that we can work with them, but we all know that crew skeds will do anything to cover a trip. What you are suggesting here is that the pilot group voluntarily give up a key quality of life provision in our contract for zero quid, simply because they said so. Well, sorry, that's not going to work for me. And nobody has the right to tell me to do that. I paid for this contract. If the company wants a rolling 2 hour short call leash, then they'll need to negotiate in good faith for it.
And yes, I am confident that every grievance would be won. Slam dunk. The company simply will have to staff with IAs, GS, and short call until this is resolved. And nothing stops a pilot from acknowledging a trip outside the 10 hour window, he simply has the option not to, per the contract, or to be doing something else, such as commuting in for a trip.
What other sections of the contract would you like to ignore?
What is so amazing is they brag about the great relationship with the pilots and they are making sick money, why are they treating us so poorly??
Greed is one of the 7 deadly sins for a reason. IMO it will only get worse. Appeasement will only increase management's lust for concessions.
12-31-2013 | 05:54 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2009
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Hi Denny,
You are right with one small exception. The total amount for one who turns 50 or is older is $23,000 not $22,000. 17.5K + 5.5K = 23K. The only reason I noticed, was that is what I contributed in 2013. I didn't quite reach the 415C Limit ($51K for 2013), but hopefully in 2014. Thanks for your quality posts and good luck in the playoffs.
AP
You are right with one small exception. The total amount for one who turns 50 or is older is $23,000 not $22,000. 17.5K + 5.5K = 23K. The only reason I noticed, was that is what I contributed in 2013. I didn't quite reach the 415C Limit ($51K for 2013), but hopefully in 2014. Thanks for your quality posts and good luck in the playoffs.
AP
12-31-2013 | 06:37 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,898
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From: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
You raise all the important points. Management is one by one showing their true colors. Death by 1000 cuts. They are making enemies of the pilots with each heavy handed policy.
What is so amazing is they brag about the great relationship with the pilots and they are making sick money, why are they treating us so poorly??
Greed is one of the 7 deadly sins for a reason. IMO it will only get worse. Appeasement will only increase management's lust for concessions.
What is so amazing is they brag about the great relationship with the pilots and they are making sick money, why are they treating us so poorly??
Greed is one of the 7 deadly sins for a reason. IMO it will only get worse. Appeasement will only increase management's lust for concessions.
I've been saying this for years. "Death by 1000 cuts" is the game plan. Paint us into a corner so that one day, we have no options other than fly to the max every month for straight pay, take reroutes and never call in sick. Or face the wrath of management on your career. Then what's next... "why did you divert?... That airplane's not broken, take it or quit. You're fatigued? We're going to put you on administrative leave while we look into that. We'll get back to you."
I'm sure lots of guys who voted for TA12 are surprised that all the things they said the company 'would never do', that they are doing exactly that. This isn't your grandfather's Delta. This is 21st century pilot pushing at it's finest.
Wake up and smell the management fellas. It's happening.
They are becoming uber-rich while telling you that you need to 'stay humble' and be thankful that you could give up profit sharing and contractual benefits for your micro-raise. All while they give other employees hot dinners, cash cards, free uniforms, paid special assignments while pilots 'volunteer'. Nice. We don't have a representational problem. We have a membership problem. No union in the world can help us if we don't start standing up for our profession.
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