I agree with you on this. You need at least 9 behind the door.

Yeah. Because that's always been an effective catch-all in our "mission-oriented" culture. Guys will always be reluctant to call in fatigued, even when they are fatigued, due to a myriad of reasons (paperwork, letting down then rest of the crew, potential "meeting.") I don't see how 117 changes that. An absolute minimum 12-hr rest would have made 117 a lot more effective.

Hasn't that always been the rule? I don't think that calling in fatigued just showed up with 117.

Isn't there a difference here though? Calling in fatigued is one thing. Not having the required 8 hour SOT is another. You may not feel fatigued, but without the 8 hour SOT, you are violating the new FAR.

^^^^^YES^^^^^

Instead we have up to 9 hours block, same duty day lengths (except they can be extended easier), and the same length of layovers.

+1, not feeling it so far

Not quite. The minimum layover is now 10 hours... and you have to have the opportunity to get 8 hours of sleep. That's a big improvement over what we had before. The rest of FAR 117, not so much... I'm not all that impressed with it so far.

Then you would have pilots screaming on here about all the low time trips. A 12 hour min layover would cause havoc with trip construction. 30 hour layovers jumped substantially when we got 8 hours behind the door. Every change has consequences.

I think I already know the answer to this one, but with 117 a reserve pilot can no longer commute in the day of a reserve assignment correct? I believe CASS would be able to document movement prior to a reserve assignment thus prove a rest violation.

Just asking!

Wrong again. The 30 hour layovers jumped because of the new 10 hour minimum layover (which must include greater than 8 hours behind the door... specifically, an opportunity to get 8 hours of sleep).