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Folks, sailingfun is demonstrating exactly what I fear DALPA is going to do. They're going to keep repeating this "8 hours behind the door = 8 hours of sleep opportunity" mantra until people gradually start accepting it. Don't accept this! Hold ALPA accountable to their motto of "schedule with safety." Don't let anyone talk you into violating an FAR!
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Originally Posted by FIIGMO
(Post 1559141)
I think I already know the answer to this one, but with 117 a reserve pilot can no longer commute in the day of a reserve assignment correct? I believe CASS would be able to document movement prior to a reserve assignment thus prove a rest violation.
Just asking! Jumpseating is not company assigned duty. A DH to base (if such a thing existed) would be a different thing. |
@ Fiigmo Why not? Does "rest" imply sleeping at home? I'm interested at seeing others' replies. I know that I won't be changing my commuting patterns.
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Just got the latest All Pilots letter. Two points/questions.
Delta's long term financial goals are specific: Very specific goals which are made public for all of us to see. Easy to tell in about a year whether or not these goals have been met.· 10-12% annual operating margins · Annual Earnings Per Share growth of 10-15% · 15% ROIC · $5 billion annual operating cash flow with approximately 50% reinvested back into the business · Investment-grade balance sheet metrics including $7 billion of adjusted net debt by 2015 Point 1: What are DALPA's goals, which like those above, that can be measured? The letter continues: All stakeholders will benefit from Delta’s long-term financial success – employees and shareholders alike. For employees, Delta will remain a great place to work with competitive pay, benefits and job stability and the ability to share in the company’s financial success. For customers, Delta will continue to offer industry-leading service and superior products that build loyalty and increase Net Promoter Scores. And, for investors, we will continue to produce reliable, solid returns on invested capital. Point 2: Why should pilots who are asked to continue to provide industry-leading service, remain humble and accept merely competitive pay for this service? If we should be satisfied with competitive pay shouldn't RA be pleased with competitive service? |
Originally Posted by Purple Drank
(Post 1559059)
Where is DALPA on this??
If you don't know the answer, then you are expressing outrage over a third-hand (at best) story on an anonymous message board. If they felt it was an unreasonable flight plan, they shouldn't have accepted it. If they felt they were hoodwinked by dispatch with bad info, they should follow it up through the appropriate channels at the company and with ALPA. Every 117 related issue (contract or FAR) is being followed up by your Scheduling Committee, and they are doing a helluva job following up on the mountain of phone calls/emails. Despite what some would like to think, ALPA cannot be everywhere all the time. It's up to all of us to know the FARs, to follow them, and to follow our contract. |
Originally Posted by GunshipGuy
(Post 1559156)
Point 1: What are DALPA's goals · Annual Earnings Per Share growth of 10-15% · 15% ROIC · $5 billion annual operating cash flow with approximately 50% reinvested back into the business · Investment-grade balance sheet metrics including $7 billion of adjusted net debt by 2015 :D |
Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
(Post 1559092)
Wrong. The FAA's interpretation of their rule basically just restates the rule. And really, it doesn't even matter what kind of "interpretation" they come out with... the FAR is written very clearly and not open to any interpretation. Until they rewrite the FAR, I'll be complying with it thank you very much.
I posted that "interpretation" earlier, but here it is again. I'll emphasize in red the parts that make it indisputable: Sleep Opportunity 1. Definition of Sleep Opportunity: APA asked the FAA to define ‘‘uninterrupted sleep opportunity.’’ APA also asked whether the sleep opportunity has to take place at a specific location, such as the flightcrew member’s home. Subsection 117.25(e) requires a certificate holder to provide a flightcrew member with 10 hours of rest that includes an 8-hour uninterrupted sleep opportunity immediately before the flightcrew member begins a reserve or FDP. Subsection 117.25(f) requires the flightcrew member to notify the certificate holder if he or she determines that his/her rest period will not provide an 8-hour uninterrupted sleep opportunity. A sleep opportunity generally commences once a flightcrew member is at a location where the flightcrew member can reasonably be expected to go to sleep and not have that sleep interrupted. The sleep opportunity does not need to take place at the flightcrew member’s home, but it must take place at a location where the flightcrew member can reasonably expect to obtain 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep. In addition, as the FAA pointed out in the preamble to final rule, specific sleep situations ‘‘are difficult to capture in a regulatory standard.’’ That is why 117.25(f) requires the flightcrew member to notify the certificate holder if the flightcrew member determines that he or she cannot get the requisite amount of uninterrupted sleep. It's very simple. If you don't have an 8 hour sleep opportunity, you don't have an option - you must comply with the FAR. Simply call Crew Tracking and let them know that your report has to be pushed back. |
Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
(Post 1559143)
Wrong again. The 30 hour layovers jumped because of the new 10 hour minimum layover (which must include greater than 8 hours behind the door... specifically, an opportunity to get 8 hours of sleep).
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Originally Posted by LeineLodge
(Post 1559163)
It seems like you have a clear understanding of the rule.
Originally Posted by LeineLodge
(Post 1559163)
I don't understand what's got you so spun up about this. :confused:
#2 - I'm hoping to get the word out to some degree about this, because it's possible that not many pilots have really thought about it. In light of the fact that some within DALPA are putting out wrong information, I'm trying to do what I can to counter that. #3 - Because it really ****es me off to see the same usual suspects doing whatever they can to shield the company from real world consequences rather than focusing on doing what's best for pilots and safety. |
Originally Posted by Mem9guy
(Post 1559165)
Not taking any side here, but are you sure that in legal terms that an "8 hour sleep opportunity" and an "opportunity to get 8 hours of sleep" are the same thing...
op·por·tu·ni·ty noun \ˌä-pər-ˈtü-nə-tē, -ˈtyü-\ : an amount of time or a situation in which something can be done 8 hours 8 one hour periods sleep slēp/ noun noun: sleep 1. a condition of body and mind such as that which typically recurs for several hours every night, in which the nervous system is relatively inactive, the eyes closed, the postural muscles relaxed, and consciousness practically suspended. un·in·ter·rupt·ed ˌənˌintəˈrəptid/ adjective adjective: uninterrupted 1. without a break in continuity. |
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