Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
04-15-2014 | 06:39 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,003
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From: Captain Jack
As a guy who picks up WS, I'm always extremely suspicious of greenslippers castigating my WS.
1. Some of us drop our crappy trips and then try to find SOMETHING to at least partly fill us back up. That would LOOK like not filling up to trigger... but the NET effect is MORE flying in the pot for others.
2. I drop from the award down to 50-60 hours a month routinely as my final flying. HOWEVER, I also churn 4 to 6 trips through open time via PS and drops and WS attempting to get the max $$ for the least days, in that 50 hours. You'd see that and castigate.
3. Commuters rarely if ever get GS. I look at every GS given out in my category, and 99% of them I COULD NOT BE AWARDED due to the amount of advance notice (minimum). If it's a trip I like and want, and I'm not going to get it by waiting for a GS because I can't make the commute, why shouldn't I grab it as a WS? My goal is QOL, so if I see an easy/short/high-pay trip, I take it and put something else up for swap/drop/pickup.
I will agree with you on this--IF we had better analysis of a bases greenslip awards, when they are given out (block hours, ALV in the base, % lines vs. reserves, how many trip/days are in open time for each day of the month, reserve coverage), THEN we could educate ourselves for how to maximize GS awards, and maybe I could learn enough that I could even get one as a commuter. This is analysis I'd like to see from the union, but it's fairly complex and I can't imagine who might take on the task if I didn't volunteer to do it myself. And I expect someone might be afraid that publishing analysis of maximizing overtime pay would violate some "status quo" or other work-freedom castration we're saddled with.
I know you're just venting, and I think I usually agree with your posts, but IMO anyone that works > ALV (or awarded line) is much more of a problem to the pilot group. Essentially: HO's <<vastly worse<< generalized WSers.
(PS-- YOU could probably do a decent job of starting that GS education by explaining what you look for as a ripe environment and how to get them. If you don't explain the PLAYS to your team-mates, you can't be mad when they don't run their post-patterns right to catch your pass...)
1. Some of us drop our crappy trips and then try to find SOMETHING to at least partly fill us back up. That would LOOK like not filling up to trigger... but the NET effect is MORE flying in the pot for others.
2. I drop from the award down to 50-60 hours a month routinely as my final flying. HOWEVER, I also churn 4 to 6 trips through open time via PS and drops and WS attempting to get the max $$ for the least days, in that 50 hours. You'd see that and castigate.
3. Commuters rarely if ever get GS. I look at every GS given out in my category, and 99% of them I COULD NOT BE AWARDED due to the amount of advance notice (minimum). If it's a trip I like and want, and I'm not going to get it by waiting for a GS because I can't make the commute, why shouldn't I grab it as a WS? My goal is QOL, so if I see an easy/short/high-pay trip, I take it and put something else up for swap/drop/pickup.
I will agree with you on this--IF we had better analysis of a bases greenslip awards, when they are given out (block hours, ALV in the base, % lines vs. reserves, how many trip/days are in open time for each day of the month, reserve coverage), THEN we could educate ourselves for how to maximize GS awards, and maybe I could learn enough that I could even get one as a commuter. This is analysis I'd like to see from the union, but it's fairly complex and I can't imagine who might take on the task if I didn't volunteer to do it myself. And I expect someone might be afraid that publishing analysis of maximizing overtime pay would violate some "status quo" or other work-freedom castration we're saddled with.
I know you're just venting, and I think I usually agree with your posts, but IMO anyone that works > ALV (or awarded line) is much more of a problem to the pilot group. Essentially: HO's <<vastly worse<< generalized WSers.
(PS-- YOU could probably do a decent job of starting that GS education by explaining what you look for as a ripe environment and how to get them. If you don't explain the PLAYS to your team-mates, you can't be mad when they don't run their post-patterns right to catch your pass...)
I hoped during my post it was clear this was not just White slipping. I WS at times also. I also understand cats where greens are few and far between and as well commuters being unable to capitalize on them. That being said though my "look a little" is where the frustration starts. I added in the unique situation "Holiday weekend....reserve coverage way down". A few extra clicks to see that the history for weeks has been gs's going to Out of Base with 10-12 hours for report. This on normal weekends. Then add in Holiday and open trips.....That was my point. I have absolutely nothing against ws's or commuters wanting more stability or quality in their schedule, or as you said actually adding to the pot. That was not the case here and I hoped that I portrayed that but I guess I was short. If they had hit GS instead of WS that's how it would have went. My frustration is in the time difference between opening ICrew and putting in the WS vs GS with doing a little checking is about 3-4 minutes. That's all I'm saying.
Check - res availability list, daily trip coverage history, sc assignments, open time list and you can create a very good guess at the possibilities. It sounds like a lot but after only a few minutes you get the hang of it. Actually if you get good at it you can narrow it down to the actual trip you get as an green and no you don't have to be super senior to do it. Not that everyone wants or cares to go to that length but just a couple of minutes of checking can go a long way.
04-15-2014 | 06:44 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
I completely agree with you and of Buzzpat.
I hoped during my post it was clear this was not just White slipping. I WS at times also. I also understand cats where greens are few and far between and as well commuters being unable to capitalize on them. That being said though my "look a little" is where the frustration starts. I added in the unique situation "Holiday weekend....reserve coverage way down". A few extra clicks to see that the history for weeks has been gs's going to Out of Base with 10-12 hours for report. This on normal weekends. Then add in Holiday and open trips.....That was my point. I have absolutely nothing against ws's or commuters wanting more stability or quality in their schedule, or as buzz said actually adding to the pot. That was not the case here and I hoped that I portrayed that but I guess I was short. If they had hit GS instead of WS that's how it would have went. My frustration is in the time difference between opening ICrew and putting in the WS vs GS with doing a little checking is about 3-4 minutes. That's all I'm saying.
Check - res availability list, daily trip coverage history, sc assignments, open time list and you can create a very good guess at the possibilities. It sounds like a lot but after only a few minutes you get the hang of it. Actually if you get good at it you can narrow it down to the actual trip you get as an green and no you don't have to be super senior to do it. Not that everyone wants or cares to go to that length but just a couple of minutes of checking can go a long way.
I hoped during my post it was clear this was not just White slipping. I WS at times also. I also understand cats where greens are few and far between and as well commuters being unable to capitalize on them. That being said though my "look a little" is where the frustration starts. I added in the unique situation "Holiday weekend....reserve coverage way down". A few extra clicks to see that the history for weeks has been gs's going to Out of Base with 10-12 hours for report. This on normal weekends. Then add in Holiday and open trips.....That was my point. I have absolutely nothing against ws's or commuters wanting more stability or quality in their schedule, or as buzz said actually adding to the pot. That was not the case here and I hoped that I portrayed that but I guess I was short. If they had hit GS instead of WS that's how it would have went. My frustration is in the time difference between opening ICrew and putting in the WS vs GS with doing a little checking is about 3-4 minutes. That's all I'm saying.
Check - res availability list, daily trip coverage history, sc assignments, open time list and you can create a very good guess at the possibilities. It sounds like a lot but after only a few minutes you get the hang of it. Actually if you get good at it you can narrow it down to the actual trip you get as an green and no you don't have to be super senior to do it. Not that everyone wants or cares to go to that length but just a couple of minutes of checking can go a long way.
Are there married couples on here?
04-15-2014 | 06:59 PM
meh
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 828
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Ok, so right there is something I'm not sure I've fully considered or understand, the 100block in 28 days limiting factor. Am I saying it right--it has to be BLOCK vs. FDP or duty day right? So, GS only pays when above ALV (I checked timecard and it says 75) So, if you're flying a hard block sched, you only can grab a 25 hr GS, correct?
--strive for high credit vs. block to help this, does that work?
-- and thus your statement, when at the trigger, only put in GS?
What about if you pushed some of the excess time you got into your bank, if any WS etc. above the GS trigger, which you can then use on a future month to achieve GS trigger while leaving the pot optimally full for others?
Check - res availability list, daily trip coverage history, sc assignments, open time list and you can create a very good guess at the possibilities. It sounds like a lot but after only a few minutes you get the hang of it. Actually if you get good at it you can narrow it down to the actual trip you get as an green and no you don't have to be super senior to do it. Not that everyone wants or cares to go to that length but just a couple of minutes of checking can go a long way.
Keep talking, I think some of us are learning and getting smarter here, or at least I suspect I might if youz keep talking.
04-15-2014 | 07:05 PM
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
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From: Poodle Whisperer
Now, those hired 2011 and on... that's a totally different deal. Nothing has happened in the last 20 years, so people hired in 2011 on the East side are already senior to where I sit at DL as the old guys age out. (13% in)
04-15-2014 | 07:15 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
LOL Scambo...
Ok, so right there is something I'm not sure I've fully considered or understand, the 100block in 28 days limiting factor. Am I saying it right--it has to be BLOCK vs. FDP or duty day right? So, GS only pays when above ALV (I checked timecard and it says 75) So, if you're flying a hard block sched, you only can grab a 25 hr GS, correct?
--strive for high credit vs. block to help this, does that work?
-- and thus your statement, when at the trigger, only put in GS?
What about if you pushed some of the excess time you got into your bank, if any WS etc. above the GS trigger, which you can then use on a future month to achieve GS trigger while leaving the pot optimally full for others?
Ok all that sounds good... but I feel like a dog looking at a nuclear bomb. Not sure I understand how those all interact to drive GS, particularly the SC assignments.
Keep talking, I think some of us are learning and getting smarter here, or at least I suspect I might if youz keep talking.
Ok, so right there is something I'm not sure I've fully considered or understand, the 100block in 28 days limiting factor. Am I saying it right--it has to be BLOCK vs. FDP or duty day right? So, GS only pays when above ALV (I checked timecard and it says 75) So, if you're flying a hard block sched, you only can grab a 25 hr GS, correct?
--strive for high credit vs. block to help this, does that work?
-- and thus your statement, when at the trigger, only put in GS?
What about if you pushed some of the excess time you got into your bank, if any WS etc. above the GS trigger, which you can then use on a future month to achieve GS trigger while leaving the pot optimally full for others?
Ok all that sounds good... but I feel like a dog looking at a nuclear bomb. Not sure I understand how those all interact to drive GS, particularly the SC assignments.
Keep talking, I think some of us are learning and getting smarter here, or at least I suspect I might if youz keep talking.
The pre-117 paradigm for everyone was to fly extra, white slip, in vacation months and to premonth swap low time one days for high time 3 days... You can't do that anymore...well, you can only to the extent your 28 day look back allows it....green slip is the new white slip.
Look, if you are willing to fly it for single pay, why not fly it for double.
04-15-2014 | 07:18 PM
Line Holder
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 378
Likes: 5
LOL Scambo...
Ok, so right there is something I'm not sure I've fully considered or understand, the 100block in 28 days limiting factor. Am I saying it right--it has to be BLOCK vs. FDP or duty day right? So, GS only pays when above ALV (I checked timecard and it says 75) So, if you're flying a hard block sched, you only can grab a 25 hr GS, correct?
--strive for high credit vs. block to help this, does that work?
-- and thus your statement, when at the trigger, only put in GS?
What about if you pushed some of the excess time you got into your bank, if any WS etc. above the GS trigger, which you can then use on a future month to achieve GS trigger while leaving the pot optimally full for others?
Ok all that sounds good... but I feel like a dog looking at a nuclear bomb. Not sure I understand how those all interact to drive GS, particularly the SC assignments.
Keep talking, I think some of us are learning and getting smarter here, or at least I suspect I might if youz keep talking.
Ok, so right there is something I'm not sure I've fully considered or understand, the 100block in 28 days limiting factor. Am I saying it right--it has to be BLOCK vs. FDP or duty day right? So, GS only pays when above ALV (I checked timecard and it says 75) So, if you're flying a hard block sched, you only can grab a 25 hr GS, correct?
--strive for high credit vs. block to help this, does that work?
-- and thus your statement, when at the trigger, only put in GS?
What about if you pushed some of the excess time you got into your bank, if any WS etc. above the GS trigger, which you can then use on a future month to achieve GS trigger while leaving the pot optimally full for others?
Ok all that sounds good... but I feel like a dog looking at a nuclear bomb. Not sure I understand how those all interact to drive GS, particularly the SC assignments.
Keep talking, I think some of us are learning and getting smarter here, or at least I suspect I might if youz keep talking.
Ok first the GS trigger is at the most 75 hours, sometimes 72. Second credit time is your friend, the more the better. I play the open board a lot and since 117 other then the days I want to work I look for high credit low block trips.
I don't commute so I will pick up for example a 2 day 9 hour trip that departs late in the day and returns early the next. One leg a dh to help build a GS cushion. Last month I had an 80ish hour schedule with about 30 hours of credit and picked up a 3 day GS. This month at 76 hours with lots of credit and picked up a GS.
They key if you live in base is to hit the GS trigger and watch the GS awards on a daily basis and you can pretty much target when you will get one. Work smarter not harder if you can.
04-15-2014 | 08:15 PM
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
Likes: 0
From: Poodle Whisperer
Beer report:
Rebel IPA was on sale tonight (the new Sam Adams brew)... not bad! I've got some torpedo left for comparison. I shall report back hopefully before I reach the point of posting pictures of cats.
Rebel IPA was on sale tonight (the new Sam Adams brew)... not bad! I've got some torpedo left for comparison. I shall report back hopefully before I reach the point of posting pictures of cats.
04-15-2014 | 08:31 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,206
Likes: 0
From: DAL FO
04-15-2014 | 08:49 PM
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
Likes: 0
From: Poodle Whisperer
04-15-2014 | 09:15 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,518
Likes: 0
From: B737 CA
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