To be fair, we also do 7-hour redeyes to ANC and LIM with 2-man. An ATL-AGS-ATL CDO is probably more benign.

Again, the devil is in the details on how they are limited and that will come out in the approaching days. He stressed to me patience because the LOA is quite long and of course very technical, and as such he did not want to get into specifics yet.

He took my call and answered my questions but desired to not be very specific so we had correct information.

You da man! And I doubted you. :) Good ear.

Me too. I'm glad they fixed this one!

Don't forget, March and especially April '08 guys will also get their vacation accrual step one year earlier as a result of this as well. Nice that we're all on the same track from here on out. I know this little issue chaps me every year.

Because more than likely it will require fewer bodies to staff the airline. Just like raising the TLV doesn't require fewer bodies to staff the airline?

Agreed, with the proper limits I'd much rather do a low block nap than a long redeye.

Also, I think 117 sets some limits on these wrt time behind the door, which was never required in the "bad old days." I completely ignored that part of the 117 literature since we didn't do naps, but I guess I better go re-read that section again.

If what 80 pointed out is true about a higher ADG then the offset could be there...still need to see the whole agreement to know for sure.

I know we don't have the details yet but I'm sure the company ran the numbers on the 30 hour layovers and said "Dang it we are wasting to much money paying crew members to sit somewhere for 30 hours that could be flying back 5 hours later!"

I'm sure these will be worth more money and they MAY go senior most of the time, but I can't see ANY argument that they are safer or even as safe as the current situation. Some of the pilots might be as safe flying them however some will be less cable of performing this style of flying. So over all it will lead to some degradation in safety. Will planes fall from the skies? Of course not, but mistakes will be made and hopefully caught by our professional brothers and sisters.

Someone explain to me while we are at it how making us more efficient on these overnights by doing CDO's is not going to cost "some" jobs?

I guess I'm tired and just the thought of a 5 hour layover is painful (even if more lucrative) :rolleyes:

I'm hearing that long call would only be extended to 13 hours - if that's the case then it's a no vote from me

CDO's are DANGEROUS....period, end of discussion. If this goes to Memrat it's an automatic NO vote from me. If it's included and passes and if I'm ever assigned one it will warrant a Fatigue call on the return leg.

At fNWA these covered 2 duty days and were 2 short legs. A turn like you describe could be worth 11hrs credit for 3 flight and less than 12 on duty. My guess is they go super senior to in base pilots. Hypothetically 8 days work 88 hrs credit less than 30 hrs hard fly.