I probably won't do them. But I ask you. We fly LIM-ATL every day, 7 hour allnighter, sun up for the last 3 hours--absolutely brutal. Is that "safe?"

Further, when I flew the 88, I found four consecutive days of early-birds to be completely fatiguing, but others liked them.

I'm not saying that these CDOs are good, or bad. I'm saying give it a little time. I can point out plenty of trips system-wide all all fleets that are more fatiguing than a CDO--many. Are they "unsafe?"

Gloopy,

All valid concerns (I assume you are talking about reserves) but remember everyone has different concerns/wants etc.

We need to look at any agreement as a whole. Many folks will have their automatic "no" vote/opinion on a specific issue and that is fine. Hell I guess that could be an argument for ratification.

I am very skeptical on conceding on CDOs for numerous reasons but I want to see the big picture before coming to conclusions.

Scoop

Wow..."severe implications." That sounds like a "stern" letter from MD to the company in its ferocity. What kinds of implications? Are you going to lead the charge?

Sure we can fix it. We just have east bases (DTW, ATL) fly the LAX-GUA redeye in the middle of a three or four day trip. Then you will complain that "we" stole "your" flying.

FYI... I heard back from one of my reps and he confirmed that CDO's ARE a part of this TA. He says they are being restricted so as to have more than a couple of hours between the flights and that somehow makes them different than what some of us may have experienced at regional airlines. It sounded to me like he supports including the CDO's. Very disappointing.

The only other tidbit he mentioned was that they are eliminating the unpaid 30 hours layovers. That would be a good thing.

They are called SDTs (split duty trip) not CDOs(continous duty overnights) anymore.

They can be good provided that these requirements are met.

1. No more than 1 hour flight time legs.
2. At least 6 hours of rest.
3. A maximum of two legs per SDT (out, then back).
4. No charter or maintenance flights on a SDT.
5. SDTs can only be put on lines that are exclusive to SDTs.
6. No more than 3 SDTs in a row.
7. A minimum of 14 days off per month.

See my response to Scoop on the previous page. Bottom line: The company has the ability schedule the last flight in at night and the first flight out the next morning without doing those flights within a CDO. The redeyes fly all night because... well, that's what a redeye is. The market has always demanded redeyes. Somebody has to fly them. A CDO has nothing to do with market demand. It's just late night and early morning flights. The company can cover those flights (and currently does) without having a crew on duty all night. We should NOT be giving this up... it's a compromise in safety!

FAR 117 requires the opportunity to get 8 hours of sleep. It's based on widely accepted sleep science and the need to be properly rested before flying. How do you get "8 hours of uninterrupted sleep opportunity" with the requirements you listed?

Not leading a charge.

However, if there is cram down containing concession, there is going to be a charge for stamps. And, someone in Tampa is gonna be like this:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=...00436573139100


Is that what you want Herk?

It could. But I can't believe they would do that.
They will either get it to us today or first thing tomorrow or it will be memrat.

They can't keep us in the dark and then vote on Wednesday.