Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1654031)

You really need to go back and look at what happened to the other employee groups at Delta. Entire groups had their jobs eliminated and outsourced never to return. Thousands of other employees had their jobs reclassified to DGS or DSS or whatever the name is now at much lower pay and benefits. Staffing in jobs that remained Delta has been slashed. Delta's non pilot costs are well below their pilot costs relative to the industry. You really don't want to compare your pay and benefits to the non pilot employees if your seeking improvements!

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1654076)

The post you're quoting was not a direct response to your post. Go back and read the post I replied to and what he said. Everyone with the exception of management made enormous sacrifices to get this airline through the last decade.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1654049)

I often see posts from pilots who feel they are the only ones who have suffered and the other employees have not made sacrifices...

Originally Posted by Imapilot2 (Post 1653909)

I hear you and do understand that frustration but sometimes, more often than not with pilots and other large groups, its better to have a few good men do their best for us. I see it the same as this: After a 2hr delay on the ground in LGA you are faced with going back to the gate or in 15 min you feel you are going to be able to take off. Now get out of your seat, go to the back and ask all the passengers over the PA hands up if they want to go back to the gate ,hands down if they want to wait to take the chance to go. Everyone will argue to the other side that they don't understand their reasons well enough. Those that have to go want to take the chance, others will miss connect anyway so they want to go back. It will start a war that will never end.

Sometimes all the info in the room with the negotiators is so deep that the regular line guy will never grasp or even care to understand. So an honest "informed" vote never happens even if we MEMRAT it. I don't think their is a conspiracy for us to be left out. There are many people involved working for us. I also don't think that over time any other group/union working for us is going to be any different. Soak anything for a long time and it all comes out smelling the same. This of course is JMO.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1654083)

Well to start there was Black Monday in the late nineties where 5000 employees were let go on one day. The ramp once was a career job at Delta that payed well. Now they are all DGS people working for just above minimum wage. Gate agents have seen a large reduction in jobs with increased automation. Flights once worked with two or three agents now have one. Kiosks replaced a bunch of jobs at the front of the airport. Many of the agents left are part time. Basically the entire ground training department was let go and replaced with cd's and flash drives. Flight attendants suffered as large or larger job loss as pilots going from 20,000 down to about 12,000 premerger with large work rule changes. Crew scheduling like the ramp went from a well paying career job to off the street hires at half the pay and benefits. I can go on and on but let's just leave it at with the exception of management the last 15 years have been ugly.

Originally Posted by nwaf16dude (Post 1654054)

For a category that is supposedly going to start big-time shrinkage in the fall, that's a surprise.

Originally Posted by Whidbey (Post 1654176)

I keep hearing about a huge bid coming this fall. Lots of captain spots and the beginning of staffing adjustments for the new 330s.

If a drawdown is planned in the ER categories, maybe the plan is for it to be in terms of folks bidding up and out rather than pushing guys out the bottom?

One can hope.

Originally Posted by Whidbey (Post 1654176)

I keep hearing about a huge bid coming this fall. Lots of captain spots and the beginning of staffing adjustments for the new 330s.

If a drawdown is planned in the ER categories, maybe the plan is for it to be in terms of folks bidding up and out rather than pushing guys out the bottom?

One can hope.

Originally Posted by newKnow (Post 1654066)

Sailing,

You seem to be a man in search of an argument that isn't there.

Before going off the deep end to protect something that isn't being attacked, next time, take the time to read what I wrote, first. ;)

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1653893)

...As for herk and the other new guys from the military, your arrival into the airline will require something of a sea change in your thought process. Your new way of thinking has to be non-managerial and realize you are a technician pilot, not a management trainee. In commercial aviation, know your contract so you can maximize your income...don't just agree with whatever your union says is best for you. If a contract change (proposal) doesn't meet the sniff test of either giving you more money or more time off (preferably both), it isn't good.