We need to take a pay cut so we can compete against them and work harder so as to be more efficient or the NMB will impose it on us :eek:

Never too early to start lowering expectations for the next opener.

Sailing,

That will be managements talking point for 2015 and it is a little more complicated than that.

Least efficient at what? Flying block hours or producing revenue?

While we average fewer block hours than SWA per pilot, we produce more revenue per pilot. What more directly affects the bottom line when it comes to producing profits revenue or block hours? Can you even fully separate the two?

Management touts their skill in properly gauging the airline and putting the optimal aircraft on every route. Well to do this it takes a diverse fleet that increases training, reserves required, etc.

So it is disingenuous to say that we "one of the least effcient airlines" if this "inefficiency" actually enables us to maximize revenue.

I know you are very knowledgeable about this stuff but some Pilots are not. All considered, I don't think casually stating an arguable management talking point as a fact does the Pilot group any good.

OBTW - Other airlines can bank sick leave which may encourage Pilots to fly when not quite 100%, while a Pilot who can not bank sick leave (Delta Pilots) may decide it would be better to call in sick. So one thing management can do immediately to increase block time per Pilot is to allow us to bank sick leave.

Scoop - Just my 2 cents.

Management chooses to operate a wide variety of aircraft. This corresponds to inefficiency in training.

How is that anything we should address as pilots when considering the value we provide the company. We do not need to strive to close that efficiency gap as it is not a product of our work rules.

Try again fan boy.

80, how were you reading my mind?

That tune is constant and unrelenting. That tune is IMO partially responsible for pilots checking out from staying abreast (btw, thanks Denny...very nice!) of what's going on around them because when they do it seems there's an unrelenting stream of Sailingfun messaging that tells us we don't stand a chance of significantly improving our PWA. Well, to rephrase--"actually" significantly improving our PWA. Sure, we'll be told how we benefited by significant improvement, but when we see that we're putting in more hours and still looking back over a decade to what once was, well, yes, that tune can be enough to push one away from any talk related to work. Hence, job accomplished Sailingfun: my expectations have been managed; my tune is fading to acceptance and I am slowly stepping back to where I just pay my dues and live with what I get; thinking about work as little as possible.

...and what might those be? The last comparisons we all saw showed that our work rules are very much in line with other major carriers, particularly now that AA and UAL have matched our contract.

It is my understanding that our overstaffing has led to more reserve guarantee being paid out than at other airlines, and that our long trips have resulted in more trip credit. I see no way of resolving either of those productivity issues without lowering trip credit and/or reserve guarantee to something less than our competitors.

Not interested. I believe it's all in the fleet plan, which according to the slide show at recent PUB events is giving Delta a 7% premium over industry-average fares. That's huge, and is almost certainly well worth the productivity premium they pay us.

Ok, go before the NMB. When the company puts out block our numbers tell the NMB that we don't need to address that. If you read my post I clearly pointed out the fleet plan was a part of our being less efficient. To not study and understand its impact before entering contract negotiations would be stupid.

deleted, not enough coffee yet.

I have never had a management position at the airline or DALPA. The closest I have been to management was having the CEO of Delta personally threatening my job over my stand on furloughing pilots. I had the guts to sign the letters and take action beyond a web board. I have also had to meet with two other VP's over similar stands on issues. Never saw you there.
The only thing I want in the contract is the best wages and work rules we can get. We simply disagree on how to get there. I tend to be results oriented. I have watched over 30 years in this industry what works and what fails. Loud mouths and fist pounding has produced nothing.
Since the disasters of the early and mid 2000's there has only been one union that has that has produced a damn thing and that is DALPA. Everyone else has simply grabbed our coat tails and hung on.
You want to live under the 2004 rock forever. Someday however you will have to crawl out. Reality is that you work for a business. In business as they say cost is everything. I measure DALPA's success relative to our competition. You measure it relative to history. If other unions had produced the measured gains we have since 2005 we might be back to that small span of glory years and have restoration. Sadly they all failed and left us to not only do the heavy lifting but all the lifting.

By what metric do you assess that? Specific numbers, please.

You have no idea what I have done. I fail to see how you coming on this web board daily telling everyone the sky is falling and not to expect much and we are basically already overpaid/underproductive for what we do, is any sort of strategy to maximize our position. Management reads this board. You are basically re-affirming to them that some pilots (you) have accepted we cannot and should not expect more.

You seem to be a smart guy and have some friends within the inner circle of management/ALPA. It is disappointing to see you disseminate selective bits of information to spread a campaign of fear and hopelessness. To me and many others, that represents a poor strategy in maximizing our position.

The sacrifices Delta pilots have made and the way they conduct themselves every day operating with efficiency, interacting in a positive way with the customers, producing industry leading on time/completions factors....the current situation we are in now, can you think of anything positive to say about our position going into contract talks? Can you speak of any leverage at all? Will you advocate taking the first offer pushed across the table by management because "the next offer will be worse" and the time value of money says we should take what is offered now and live to fight another day?