Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-15-2014, 06:18 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
What am I missing here? I thought the FAA said that our automatic extension policy was illegal. Both pilots have to agree to an extension and both pilots have to sign a new release. Look at scenario number two in this letter:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...rpretation.pdf
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...rpretation.pdf
The document you quote points to the PIC as the person that determines crew fitness, doesn't it? That might be the piece you're not considering.
Should be a moot point (not a mute FO) with the latest LOA.
06-15-2014, 06:38 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 767A
Posts: 791
I didn't want to extend. I told my captain. He said I had no reason not to extend as it was his leg and we were only going over by about 18 minutes (ended up only being :11) so I took the path of least resistance. The release we signed had an earlier departure time. They pushed our time back twice waiting for pax. I signed the release before I knew were going into our extension. I told the captain this is not legal per FARs. He called crew tracking who told him it was. Captain then disagreed with me. I stopped arguing and just flew flight. I feel we have an illegal and broken system. That is why I am posting this. I feel we should have been given a new release. I honestly felt like refusing the extension would have been way more hassle than it was worth. If my own captain is against me, then I figure everyone's against me.
I hate that the default is acceptance, and a threat of pay loss and CP involvement to justify our decision.
I've flown a couple of the new max effort 117 trips and never been so tired since my last ORI. So much for scientific crew rest.
06-15-2014, 06:51 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Position: On the hotel shuttle
Posts: 5,840
Q1: Does the fitness-for-duty affirmation that the PIC signed prior to when he found out about the delay serve as concurrence to an extension?
Subsection 117.l9(a) allows an FDP to be extended up to 2 hours beyond the pertinent FDP limit in response to unforeseen operational circumstances that arise prior to takeoff. This extension is subject to a number of limitations, one of which is that the PIC and the
certificate holder must both concur with the extension.' A document that the PIC signed before he found out about the need for an extension would not be sufficient to concur with the extension because a person cannot concur with something that he or she does not know about. Instead, the PIC must affirmatively concur with the extension.
So we sign the FDRA and agree to an extension that's known prior to signing. But if a reason materializes after signing (after block-out), we have to agree via ACARS. Correct?
Subsection 117.l9(a) allows an FDP to be extended up to 2 hours beyond the pertinent FDP limit in response to unforeseen operational circumstances that arise prior to takeoff. This extension is subject to a number of limitations, one of which is that the PIC and the
certificate holder must both concur with the extension.' A document that the PIC signed before he found out about the need for an extension would not be sufficient to concur with the extension because a person cannot concur with something that he or she does not know about. Instead, the PIC must affirmatively concur with the extension.
So we sign the FDRA and agree to an extension that's known prior to signing. But if a reason materializes after signing (after block-out), we have to agree via ACARS. Correct?
06-15-2014, 06:56 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
06-15-2014, 07:04 AM
meh
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 828
Your signature on a release means nothing if you refuse the extension. Your legality whining is just part of the crap that get spewed by you and others on this board everyday. When it came to rubber meeting the road you couldn't step up and say "I'm not going." You were more scared of the boogey man than doing the safe/right thing. The Captain pressured you and you caved.
My offense is that you failed to man up and then you come here and whine about it being everyone's else fault. It is your fault. Live with the decisions you make. It is called being professional.
My offense is that you failed to man up and then you come here and whine about it being everyone's else fault. It is your fault. Live with the decisions you make. It is called being professional.
06-15-2014, 07:08 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
That is something I have been saying since the rule was made law. The original document that was released to the public for comment was changed quite a bit when enacted as an FAR. The "science" was thrown right out the window when it became law. I am still amazed that some continue to refer to it as scientific based. It is ALL political.
06-15-2014, 07:11 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,299
06-15-2014, 07:13 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,299
06-15-2014, 07:16 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
"Lucky Lindy didn't have no stinking pad when he flew across the Atlantic"
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