T,


No maybe about it, you are definitely 100% wrong. I was not advocating anything. I repeat for clarity - I was not advocating anything I was answering a question.

How you can go from that to speculating about my happiness is beyond me.

It boggles my mind that you can so misread a simple question and answer. The OP asked what leverage we would have not what I think we should do.

I try to take the high road and not get into it with my fellow DAL pilots but you make it awfully hard. Go back and read the original question and then my response, maybe you will figure it out.


I will even make it easy for you. Here is the Original post:


Originally Posted by satchip

Jerry, and Purple et al, you espouse a "no concession" contract in 2015. Honest question here, what incentive would management have to even negotiate? Under the RLA, they can sit on our current contract forever and we would stagnate and lose ground to inflation. Are you that happy with our current deal that you would live with it for years beyond the amendable date?

Here is my response:


Originally Posted by Scoop

The goodwill of the Pilot group. If 12,000 Pilots stop going above and beyond the operation will suffer.

Just to be crystal-clear, I am not talking about about any type of covert wink-wink type of organized effort. I am talking about Pilots displaying leadership and initiative, preventing issues from even arising by being pro-active. If we stopped doing this, and most surely would, our performance would suffer badly.

Also under the RLA we can make a lot of noise and start taking all the steps leading up to a strike. Even if we were not allowed to strike if we were to slowly jump through the required hoops, with all the accompanying hoopla, passengers bookings could decrease.

Between just these two items and there are probably others, but I only have about 30 seconds of thought into this, we are not entirely without recourse.


To make it really, really, really, easy to grasp - here is the OP's original post boiled down to a single sentence:

"what incentive would management have to even negotiate?"

So try taking my post in context of that question. Before you come on here speculating about how miserable some of your fellow Pilots are, maybe you should double check your post before you submit.



Scoop

 

I saw where they said a west coast 717 base is a possibility, but missed where they specifically said Seattle...

 

This is an exceedingly important discussion to have. All it takes is one side to request negotiations under Section 6 of the RLA, and negotiations must begin. It also must be good faith negotiations or the bad faith side runs afoul of the RLA. If our demands and no concessions are easily afforded by management and not too far above our industry competitors (as ultimately decided by the NMB), the company cannot just continue to drag their feet without being rightfully labeled as negotiating in bad faith. That's their incentive guys.

No they can't satchip. Many people are wrongly stating this because of what happened with AMR, but AMR's situation was very, very different. If our demands are as I've described above, they cannot sit on our contract forever.

I hope that after this is fully discussed by all sides, you'll see you're perpetuating a false choice that wrongly makes our pilots think there's no hope other than accepting whatever management thinks is fair.

Carl

 

The only reason to even have a union is to use the leverage you have in order to push the company to do things they do not want to "buy off" on.

This really is the question of C2015. Do we Delta pilots want to just take whatever management thinks is fair, then pray we never have another 50+% slashing of our contract? Or do we Delta pilots want to use the law and our leverage to extract things from management that they don't want to give?

I think it's clear where ALPA national and DALPA is on this, but I don't know where the majority of Delta pilots are on this.

Carl

 

T, massive reading comprehension failure!
Scoop is a standup guy, you are totally off the reservation on this one...

But taken your above comments and your signature line and there seems to be some confluence of thought, no?

As for me, it's exactly because we aren't like American that I like it here and I'm pretty sure Mgmt. has the same incentive...

Cheers
George

 

I really hope that "understanding" is what you're trying to do here satchip.

Carl

 

To be fair to the 90, it's been rare the last few months to fly one that had a MCO on it. I've seen more write ups on 88's than 90's lately, no idea what MX did to those birds but it's working.

 

hahaha, 7 - 1 is such an epic beatdown at that stage in WC soccer, I don't even know how to put that in perspective. Maybe if Auburn beats Alabama 77 to 3 this year, that would come close.

 

I think this is exactly right. Given what we've seen with the Dickson memo and 117 negotiations, our MEC chairman should be writing a letter similar to this:

"...all indications are that C2015 negotiations are going to be very tough given our desires for an industry leading contract in all areas, and management's desire to keep us at an industry average. Therefore we must begin the preparations for an option we hope we won't have to use - a strike. If a strike is ultimately called for by our members, it's imperative that all our families are prepared for a pay interruption. With deadlocked negotiations possibly taking two years and another year before they begin, we all have about three years to begin saving for our family's emergency fund. We recommend a minimum of 9 months living expenses be saved. Hopefully management will be reasonable and see the value of having the best pilots in the industry, but we must be prepared if they're not..."

The fact that this is not happening right now, leads me to believe DALPA has no intention of pursuing our ultimate weapon. No matter what.

Carl

 

I don't think DALPA is reactionary Flamer. I'm convinced they feel as though they are true partners with management. DALPA thinks that's the best strategy to make timely incremental gains without damaging the partnership.

I don't know where Delta pilots are on this, but that's where DALPA is.

Carl