What "perspective?" Why are you trying to "reach those people?"

To raise their expectations--or to lower them? To encourage them to fight for the best possible contract--or to settle for whatever management offers? To question the status quo and improve the "union--"or to demand obeisance to those who "know better" like yourself?

I'm not sure how many "tactics" are discussed here. Am I demanding accountability, transparency, and performance from "our" "union?" Absolutely.

The same could be directed towards DALPA's outdated, one-sided "constructive engagement" strategy, which has run its course. For crying out loud, Alfa. DALPA doesn't even have the juice to keep us out of an unapproved hotel in one city! And you think the same "engagement" will magically work to our advantage in C15? I don't.

This from possibly the most arrogant, belittling poster on this thread. AlfaRomeo claims the high ground. Bravo.

In early 2006 NWA froze the pension plan and replaced it with a DC plan that rose to 8% over a few years. NWALPA proposed a targeting of that money to give more of it to junior pilots who had the biggest gap between their frozen DB amount and what they would have received if the DB plan was never frozen. The targeting plan was a complicated actuarial exercise that had as a goal getting everyone to a $$ amount at age 60 that, when added to their frozen monthly benefit, would approximate the value of a 50% FAE pension (DB had originally been 60% FAE). This plan was voted on and passed by the NWA pilot group.

Many senior pilots at the time had a frozen DB benefit that exceeded the 50% FAE goal. Under the targeting plan those pilots therefore received $0 monthly since they had already achieved the 50% goal. More junior pilots with a large gap between their frozen DB benefit and the 50% FAE (the plan used assumptions of normal career progression) received a targeted $$ amount semi-monthly into the NWA DC plan. The amount varied according to complex actuarial calculations based on age, age at date of hire, etc.

A group of senior pilots, with frozen pension amounts already greater than the agreed goal of 50% FAE sued NWA and ALPA claiming that this plan represented age discrimination and damages to their retirement. Lots of back and forth over a long time and it was all eventually dismissed.

The prevailing view of many: They already had their $$, but also wanted other pilot's $$.

Ok, got it we had the same targeted type of DC plan when the DB was frozen. We had at least one lawsuit also however I believe it was over the distribution formulas for the note and claim money.

Pot meet kettle much?

Hey, I'm just a lowly line schlub. I may be sarcastic and scathing, but I'm certainly not arrogant. :cool:

May one assume that you've neither played nor coached the game? :rolleyes:

At Delta, both the $2.1B claim and the $650M note were negotiated items in the PWA.

That's funny! Seems to me all the fat kids who can't run play baseball. A few athletic kids play football. Many Dorito eating couch potatoes play defense. To be fair there are a few positions in football that actually require talent and athleticism. The kids with strong legs and hearts play soccer. They have a good bmi. The real tough and athletic kids end up playing hockey. Swimmers and gymnasts are in great shape as well. Soccer is popular because it's cheap. Just a cup, shin pads and a ball. Trendy suburban school children play lacrosse. Or if you had my hockey coach you had to play lacrosse anytime you were not on the ice. Run run run skate skate skate. Great exercise!

It's cheaper if you leave the cup at home...

One or two hard kicks, a week of icepacks, and you'll never need to send kids to college.

I was in the gym yesterday, so I saw the end of the Argentina game. I'm a huge hockey fan, and have grown to like the shootout in hockey. However, I would never want to see a shootout in an NHL playoff game, because it's not how the game is played. However, for regular season, when I have to work in the morning, it's an entertaining way to end a tie game, giving the goalie and the shooter about an even shot at it. Watching the shootout in the soccer game yesterday was a horrible way to end a World Cup game, and another reason, after the fake injuries, not to bother with it. Maybe I was seeing it wrong, but to me, a shootout looks like the goalie diving in a random direction when the shooter kicks the ball. If it hits him, great for the goalie. For the shooter, the goal is huge, so not much skill there. I don't get it...