Would you mean Capt. Tom Wychor, who led his pilot group into massive (25% to 40%) concessions during a period of time that Delta had received expanded scope permissions and had announced plans to buy the CRJ-900's that (surprise :rolleyes: ) Pinnacle ended up getting right after winning the race to the bottom? Would you mean the same as failed his interview and immediately went into management?

Would you mean the contract which was done with Delta management to secure a commitment for Delta flying while the Delta MEC was left unaware and uninformed, thus violating ALPA's Constitution and Administrative manual provisions with regard to the autonomy of the Delta MEC? Would you mean the contract which modified the Delta PWA with regard to preferential hiring in 1 D 11 and 12, which gave the senior employed Captains at Endeavor preferred interviews while ALPA members who had lost their jobs (and thus NEEDED jobs) were effectively shut out?

Would you mean the contract which is now cited by US Air / American and Delta as having lowered costs so substantially that others have to match those concessions, or go out of business?

Would you mean concessions negotiated while Endeavor's parent Company was making record profits and at the beginning of a 300% + gain in share price?

Would you mean the contract which is so lousy that Endeavor can not staff it's airline as a result of pilots leaving? Would you mean a contract which destroyed pilots' longevity?

I understand the model Moak believes in, and how it might benefit us (although I don't believe management simply takes the money from Mesaba and hands it to me as a sort of reverse Robin Hood). What I do not think you appreciate is that management wants to replicate this lower standard where ever they can and our task as a mainline association grows more difficult as we accept certificate of convenience schemes as long as they are DCI and not NAI.

No disrespect intended. But this is not a legacy that I would be proud of. It was truly shameful. Endeavor's negotiations should have never been authorized and they smell like low tide. I believe this error will cloud Tim Cannoll's run for ALPA's Presidency unless he can find a way to distance himself from the disaster. ( ... and in the current field he stands out as clearly the best choice overall, JMHO ) Smart folks like you need to help him and your post just does not help at all.

What you fundamentally misrepresent is that Delta is ONE NETWORK with Endeavor. Endeavor is Delta. The only distinction is the line we draw to separate ourselves from the ugly bargaining forced on those who have no scope.

Worse, we risk repeating some of the same errors which led to the Endeavor pilots' dilemma. We have no recognition language which compels our MEC to be in the room while Delta flying is allocated. Our scope is a piece meal mix, which lacks a global production balance. We should be writing scope that is tighter than spanx on the back side of a Kardashian. We must have recognition for the Delta MEC. We must have a global production balance. We are the best in the business at this stuff, but we need to get even better.

... and this is not Monday morning quarterbacking ... I shined a flash light on this disaster before it was ratified and while it was being negotiated. Not that I'm all that bright, a somnambulant primate could have seen this coming and simply said, NO!

Purple Drank is illegal, and those new Alfa's are kind of Ewwwww. How about neither?

The purchase of Colgan was a scope violation of the 9E contract, the NMB ruled an SLI was the remedy. Thus Delta would have been forced to pay all the training associated with the United Q400 when the lists merged. Delta chose not too, and 9E management was stuck with the bill, and went bankrupt.

Soo... the bankruptcy is ALPA's fault because of the decision the company made to buy Colgan?

Your logic is impeccable. ;)

I don't always agree with everything you post, but I agree wholeheartedly with this. No need to rub anyone's face in it with regards to our pay, but absolutely no need to apologize, either. We are constantly told we are the face of the airline, we have the most invested, and shoulder the most risk. We are underpaid.

The problem was the remedy, not the purchase, if Colgan had not been ALPA, things would have been way different. Colgan organized after the purchase, thus it changed the entire dynamic.

Still not getting it....who purchased Colgan, the company? The NMB saiid that the SLI was the remedy, so the lists were merged? Or are you saying that ALPA should have not allowed Colgan to organize. Air Florida had a similar operation, they did not organize because of a merger possibility..however it did help down the road....but simply the "ops group." (in house union) was a good ol boy group that was ill equipped to deal with what was happening at Air Florida.

On another note, with the changes in our industry and current world conditions the upcoming wide body aircraft order, IMHO will not only shock us but also amaze us in it's :)size.

Pinnacle management has a long history of taking actions without thinking out the consequences. You're barking up the wrong tree trying to blame ALPA for the consequences of management's decision.

Colgan was non-union when they were purchased by Pinnacle management in 2007. ALPA had no business organizing a pilot group that was a direct scope violation of another ALPA pilot group. That's the very definition of a DFR.

Question for you 80, if Delta decides to buy, say the new Eastern airlines, and operate it separately from you guys, should ALPA organize those pilots. Yes, or No, and why?