Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-26-2014 | 07:09 AM
No longer cares
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From: 767er Captain
In one year from the election, if this Heidi person wins, a case of beer says there will be no significant change in the "bureaucracy". You in? By significant, I mean a 10% reduction in head count.
08-26-2014 | 07:16 AM
looking for underboob
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: NYC 7ER LCA
08-26-2014 | 07:22 AM
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: 767er Captain
HEIDE OBERNDORF for ALPA PRESIDENT
Crazy, I’m crazy for feelin’ so lonely…
“ALPA has failed at the fundamental task of effectively using pattern bargaining to enhance the careers of airline pilots.”
Really? I have only gotten a pay increase every year since coming back from furlough in 2007…
“The Association has failed to defend the profession for decades now. The attitude of ALPA National over the past few decades has been that they simply provide resources to our MEC’s, which in turn, are independent decision makers and negotiators for their own airline.”
Yeah, it means that outsiders like you don’t get to dictate terms on how the Delta pilots negotiate or choose their contracts.
“If elected ALPA President I can promise you that I will return true pattern bargaining to our union by “negotiating together” in conjunction with a long-term strategic view for the profession.”
Oh, so now pattern bargaining is good? What you propose looks like collectivism. I see no reason to treat you better than a drag chute.
"A recent example of using isolation bargaining to benefit corporations can be seen at Envoy Airlines (previously American Eagle) negotiating fiasco where management had insisted upon concessions from the Envoy pilots…"
When is the last time that management failed to insist on concessions? The pilots decide whether or not to accept concessions, not the president.
“ALPA National had their appointed ALPA attorney at the table negotiating alongside the pilots. Every MEC is appointed with one or more ALPA attorneys to represent them as contract and negotiations experts. This ALPA attorney, along with the National Officers, insisted that Envoy agree to the concession-laden proposal that management had demanded.”
ALPA lawyers don’t “insist,” they counsel. Is anyone here naïve enough to believe that Parker wouldn’t make good on his threat to divert aircraft deliveries? And everyone on APC said, “whoops, there’s an EICAS message, it says ‘update your resume.’” So the Envoy pilots were free to choose, just as the PSA pilots were free to choose, just as every single pilot group is free to choose. The lesson of American and the APA is that ALPA tells its members how to vote at its peril.
Fast forward a few months from the Envoy contract rejection, and what you find is that the same ALPA contract attorney and negotiations expert who “helped” the Envoy pilots, is now assigned to PSA (an express carrier for US Airways and is now part of the American Eagle Group). He and the National Officers are again insisting that they accept the same sort of B-scale and concessions that the Envoy pilots just turned down.
There you go with that verb again. How about some proof?
“This time around the PSA MEC agreed and sent it out for a vote and it passed by 61%. Here is what your current ALPA leadership brought to the PSA pilots at the expense of the Envoy pilots…”
Legal services aren’t “leadership,” that can only come from the PSA pilots who elect their MEC, and the negotiators they send to the table.
“If you haven’t seen Captain Moak’s latest Bloomberg/BusinessWeek interview in which he assures Wall Street that “we” won’t be seeking any major improvements in our contracts any time soon; you may want to read it:”
Pilot Contract Talks in 2015 to Come Amid Robust Airline Profits - Businessweek
Yeah, go ahead and read the article, I’m not re-posting her silly opinions of a piece that is aimed at speculators first, and pilots second. Moak won’t be ALPA’s president when my next contract is amended, and it will be the DELTA PILOTS, not Wall Street, and not whoever is the next president of ALPA, who decides.
Get off my lawn!
“Unfortunately, the UAL MEC Chairman and Candidate for ALPA President, Captain Jay Heppner, agrees with Lee Moak and other ALPA negotiators that “provisioning” is a win-win for ALPA and the A4A.”
Okay, every time you write “provisioning,” I want to puke. It’s MY scope, and I can vote any way I damn well please. For now, and likely forever, I am extremely loth to trade scope for money. I intend to take all our flying back, and I expect that the current implosion at the FFD sideshow is going to make the big tent at DAL even bigger without having to trade a dime for it.
“This October, the choice for ALPA President is clear.”
It sure is. Don't vote for the megalomaniac who has no idea how limited executive power is at ALPA, and why it should stay that way.
Crazy, I’m crazy for feelin’ so lonely…
“ALPA has failed at the fundamental task of effectively using pattern bargaining to enhance the careers of airline pilots.”
Really? I have only gotten a pay increase every year since coming back from furlough in 2007…
“The Association has failed to defend the profession for decades now. The attitude of ALPA National over the past few decades has been that they simply provide resources to our MEC’s, which in turn, are independent decision makers and negotiators for their own airline.”
Yeah, it means that outsiders like you don’t get to dictate terms on how the Delta pilots negotiate or choose their contracts.
“If elected ALPA President I can promise you that I will return true pattern bargaining to our union by “negotiating together” in conjunction with a long-term strategic view for the profession.”
Oh, so now pattern bargaining is good? What you propose looks like collectivism. I see no reason to treat you better than a drag chute.
"A recent example of using isolation bargaining to benefit corporations can be seen at Envoy Airlines (previously American Eagle) negotiating fiasco where management had insisted upon concessions from the Envoy pilots…"
When is the last time that management failed to insist on concessions? The pilots decide whether or not to accept concessions, not the president.
“ALPA National had their appointed ALPA attorney at the table negotiating alongside the pilots. Every MEC is appointed with one or more ALPA attorneys to represent them as contract and negotiations experts. This ALPA attorney, along with the National Officers, insisted that Envoy agree to the concession-laden proposal that management had demanded.”
ALPA lawyers don’t “insist,” they counsel. Is anyone here naïve enough to believe that Parker wouldn’t make good on his threat to divert aircraft deliveries? And everyone on APC said, “whoops, there’s an EICAS message, it says ‘update your resume.’” So the Envoy pilots were free to choose, just as the PSA pilots were free to choose, just as every single pilot group is free to choose. The lesson of American and the APA is that ALPA tells its members how to vote at its peril.
Fast forward a few months from the Envoy contract rejection, and what you find is that the same ALPA contract attorney and negotiations expert who “helped” the Envoy pilots, is now assigned to PSA (an express carrier for US Airways and is now part of the American Eagle Group). He and the National Officers are again insisting that they accept the same sort of B-scale and concessions that the Envoy pilots just turned down.
There you go with that verb again. How about some proof?
“This time around the PSA MEC agreed and sent it out for a vote and it passed by 61%. Here is what your current ALPA leadership brought to the PSA pilots at the expense of the Envoy pilots…”
Legal services aren’t “leadership,” that can only come from the PSA pilots who elect their MEC, and the negotiators they send to the table.
“If you haven’t seen Captain Moak’s latest Bloomberg/BusinessWeek interview in which he assures Wall Street that “we” won’t be seeking any major improvements in our contracts any time soon; you may want to read it:”
Pilot Contract Talks in 2015 to Come Amid Robust Airline Profits - Businessweek
Yeah, go ahead and read the article, I’m not re-posting her silly opinions of a piece that is aimed at speculators first, and pilots second. Moak won’t be ALPA’s president when my next contract is amended, and it will be the DELTA PILOTS, not Wall Street, and not whoever is the next president of ALPA, who decides.
Get off my lawn!
“Unfortunately, the UAL MEC Chairman and Candidate for ALPA President, Captain Jay Heppner, agrees with Lee Moak and other ALPA negotiators that “provisioning” is a win-win for ALPA and the A4A.”
Okay, every time you write “provisioning,” I want to puke. It’s MY scope, and I can vote any way I damn well please. For now, and likely forever, I am extremely loth to trade scope for money. I intend to take all our flying back, and I expect that the current implosion at the FFD sideshow is going to make the big tent at DAL even bigger without having to trade a dime for it.
“This October, the choice for ALPA President is clear.”
It sure is. Don't vote for the megalomaniac who has no idea how limited executive power is at ALPA, and why it should stay that way.
You hit all the points that I was wondering about in my quick question to scambo. Is she saying that if she doesn't approve of the DAL pilots' negotiated contract that she would not sign it? Or is she saying that she would have a heavier influence as to what - in her opinion - is acceptable in her vision of the new collective bargaining? Methinks that would lead to a very rapid DFR kind of lawsuit that could be brought against ALPA national.... especially if it results in a worse deal than what we have before us in any given TA. She... or Lee Moak, for that matter, has zero business telling us what they will or will not sign. They can provide input and influence, but they cannot stop the train. That line on our contract is merely a rubber stamp. So what I saw in her letter is nothing more than a more centralized vision for the union. Sorry.. but I am not interested in that, Comrade.
Last edited by tsquare; 08-26-2014 at 07:33 AM.
08-26-2014 | 07:36 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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You hit all the points that I was wondering about in my quick question to scambo. Is she saying that if she doesn't approve of the DAL pilots' negotiated contract that she would not sign it? Or is she saying that she would have a heavier influence as to what - in her opinion - is acceptable in her vision of the new collective bargaining? Methinks that would lead to a very rapid DFR kind of lawsuit that could be brought against ALPA national.... especially if it results in a worse deal than what we have before us in any given TA. She... or Lee Moak, for that matter, has zero business telling us what they will or will not sign. They can provide input and influence, but they cannot stop the train. That line on our contract is merely a rubber stamp. So what I saw in her letter is nothing more than a more centralized vision for the union. Sorry.. but I am not interested in that Tovarich.
One thing that's pretty alarming, as you pointed out, is that this lady seems to want to consolidate power, and "negotiate together". I think pattern bargaining is an idiotic concept, as opposed to bargaining on the basis of what companies can afford to give to keep the operation running.
That being said, it's sort of curious that she's being both promoted, and attacked, on this board. From my vantage point, there just isn't enough data out there on who would be better.
So, I'd recommend my reps pass on Heidi. Who else is running? Just Canoll?
08-26-2014 | 07:39 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 127
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08-26-2014 | 07:49 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 136
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From: DL
Swaps are not subject to the ALV + 15 limit. Neither is an Icrew swap board pickup. Both of these will affect your ability to WS. Again, it is a white slip pickup limit. You can not be awarded a white slip that with put you greater than ALV + 15.
Example: ALV=80 hours. Your current projected credit is 80 hrs as well. There is a 21 hour 4 day in open time. You can't WS this trip. If it was on the ICREW swap board you CAN pick it up. You will now show 101 credit and a WS pickup limit of 0.
Essentially, if you are picking it up via a method other than a WS, there are no limits other than FAR and associated buffers.
08-26-2014 | 08:17 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2011
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Great explanation! Thanks!
08-26-2014 | 08:19 AM
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2012
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From: ATL 330 A
I know it's difficult to do, but everyone should try to read the italicized comments here from Starcheck102's original post. Classic high school sophomore stuff from a guy who couldn't debate if his life depended on it. Yet this character is one of the faces in legislative affairs. That's right, the face of your PAC dollars at work. How do you like it so far? Any wonder why we're getting our butts kicked in DC?
Carl
Carl
That's nice to know.
08-26-2014 | 08:22 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
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From: 777B
I'm an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks, to collect a bill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqjQG-Tw9FY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqjQG-Tw9FY
Last edited by scambo1; 08-26-2014 at 08:32 AM.
08-26-2014 | 08:38 AM
No longer cares
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From: 767er Captain
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