Explain and give examples?

you mean the payback days that usually get applied to 'on call days' when you can't even legally sit reserve since you aren't qualified to fly the airplane?

Payback days for training generally go in the bank. If you are a reserve unequaled it's not likely you would get payback days anyway. Training has always been very lucrative to me and friends. Read and understand the contract. Uses the tools on how to bid and manage training ALPA provides. My FO last time I went to the school house failed to do that. It cost him dearly. He had 3 shadow days going into the following month. He could have bid and held a 12 day trip touching the shadow period. With Greenslips being awarded that month he could have had a 200 plus hour month for working 12 days give or take a day.
I did not have the luxury of long trips but still easily generated 220 hours pay for the two months plus 3 payback days.

There are two different parts under discussion. The PBS shadow period provision is fantastic, especially for guys in international categories with long trips. I myself bid and was awarded two 4-day domestic trips that touched my 6-day shadow period. Since I'm a transition OE sort (captain of one plane to captain of another) all I need is one decent 4-day trip for OE and I am complete. So....two four-day trips worth of pay for just one four-day trip needing to be flown for OE--great gig!

That said, getting 1/31 of the ALV for each day of qualification training seems a bit low, considering we are "all in" on the training, 5-6 days out of the week, for far less pay per day than if we were flying. This is one example where the "good ol days" of LOT bidding were superior.

You get the ALV or the line you bid whichever is higher. In addition depending on when your training starts there are lots of options to get a great deal via where you place trips in a initial bid. You can go for time off or money. In addition if you average 5.5 days a week working for a training month you would receive 5 payback days. The shadow period is part of our training pay and process. Still waiting for someone to post how are system overall is bottom of the industry.

Actually for preposted training--which almost all Qualification Training is--there is no "higher of training or the line you bid"--you get 1/30 or 1/31 of the ALV for each day of training, with bidding allowed around that. (Caveat, there are undoubtedly some pay-protection exceptions for guys awaiting training, awaiting OE etc). It is not a bad deal, just not a great one. I just finished training on the ATL 320A, coming from ATL 717A. Here is the pay and credit breakdown for August.

Preaward of Qualification Training, beginning Aug 21. I had ten days of training, worth 28 hours. Prior to that I flew a 4-day and two 3-day trips earlier in the month as I closed out my time on the 717. Also ten days worth of work...worth 52 hours of pay! Also, I can promise you that when I go to a long school, I am "all in" and work far harder than when I am flying the line. The syllabus was very good, but quite thorough and taking it lightly really wasn't an option. I also had to do 12 hours of systems training at home (via the USB thumb drive) and I got 6 hours of pay/no credit for that.


Bottom line--not a bad month, pay wise, and no real complaints. I just think that the per-day pay of initial qual training should be worth a bit more. I also realize that that is probably not up there on ALPA's priority list.

no, they don't. if you have an all call day during your shadow period and you are flown on an X day in your shadow period, the PB days are applied to the on call days in the shadow period even though you can't legally sit reserve on those days.

I'm with you on our training pay sucking, but thats not what they did with PB days. They skipped over my reserve days in the shadow period and applied them to the reserve days outside of my shadow period. The rest of my PB days went into the bank. I didn't check the pwa, so maybe this was score one for the good guys!

I'm not sure why we can't have 5+15 for every training day. That works out to 100 hours for a normal initial qual. I work more days in a training month, I should get more pay!

It quantifiably is. Training pay per day is ridiculous, and every regional that I can think of even pays better than we get (just like vacation).

Like I said, I have a full school in OCT, and it is only worth 59 hours and change.

What is more concerning is that you didn't realize this...

Shadow is a good deal, on the other hand, but that is not what we're talking about here. My qual training is entirely in OCT, with shadow falling entirely in NOV.

I don't understand. I did a full course earlier this year, lot better than 59 (not that it shouldn't have been better). Can you show the math?