I think the take-away from the conversation about Moak is that it highlights a difference between a legitimate argument and the other kind of argument.

Legitimate arguments start with with a disagreement with a particular facet of the MEC's actions, and are backed up with some sort of logical explanation as to why the MEC is incorrect in some action or approach. As a bonus, a better alternative is usually offered, with some sort of rationale.

You can discuss these intelligently, even without agreeing. There is something there to work with.

The other arguments invariably start with a blanket statement about the union, or some disparaging remark about anyone who doesn't agree, or with a personal attack. The favorite subject of personal attacks seems to be Moak. They're roughly the equivalent of cussing or screaming in the middle of a battle of witts: they only help identify the loser, faster.

So DTW becomes an ER base when everyone gets their "bounces" in the 76. Any guess on the health or growth of this category in DTW? And what did you mean by "learning their lesson with CVG ER"?

Thanks,

Longtime CVG
7ER, A

Never mind.

You'll get banned from this forum talking nonsense like this.:rolleyes:

Denny,

Can we still make unfounded accusations about politicians and corporate executives? Because, more often than not, for them, that's just good detective work. :D


New K Now (still gonna send you a "help please" PM soon)

They allowed it to be bid in DMBS prior to the AE opening. None of that silliness is going on yet.

That Picture on the left is way old. Poor girl was innocent and not even married at the time.....:D

I don't agree with the post in reference, but you are completely wrong. I suggest you review the Landrum Griffith Act as it pertains to the free speech rights of union members - bottom line is you can say anything you want about a union official free from fear of recrimination. I highly suggest you call ALPA National Legal and get their interpretations on the topic. It has been tested in recent years and ALPA policy manual undated to reflect those interpretations.

That would not prevent a individual from pursuing civil litigation on their own time, but it will not be paid for by the association. I also find your blatant fear mongering almost as low as the original post. Suing an individual on your own dime and seeing it through to conclusion takes deep pockets and a lot of perseverance and may or may not be successful, in which case you get to pay the legal fees, and might be in turn counter-sued.

More people back down from threats of lawsuits than actual lawsuits, and in fact ALPA officers and Reps are routinely sued by members (not the other way round) and actually pay for ALPA provided supplemental insurance to provide legal representation for such.

Might be true, but it would not stop someone from filing a lawsuit. I do not think that the idea was who was paying, but I get your point.

Good post. I find it very interesting that some of the most vocal union chest pounders resort to threats using our Association for retribution for perceived personal or political slights. For instance the threat of kicking someone who wants reform in our association out under Section VIII. To them I ask, what is the primary duty of ALPA? To protect and promote pilots' interests! So why would a strong unionist want to use the union to harm a fellow pilot? It is counter intuitive and counter productive.

At the end of the day, we all want pretty much the same things for our pilot group and profession. Sure we have strong disagreements about how to get there, but we have much more in common than we do holding us apart. Basically, we are amongst friends.

Objectively, Moak and our MEC have done a better job than anyone else in their positions anywhere else. I don't see much to complain about even though Moak and our MEC decided not to act on proposals I've supported. For those who think he's been lousy, I suggest supporting him for Association President. You'll never get him recalled, but you might get him promoted.

Just make sure you know what you're (not you specifically Fly - I'm using the generic you, as in "we" ) getting yourself into.