The average Delta pilot does not earn 75 hours a month. Especially back then before we lost many of the benies. Last number I saw was the average pilot ended up with around 1100 hours a year under the current contract.. I made 305,000 as a 73 Captain back then in 03 and did not work much extra. Compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

We had 50 Captains break 500,000 in 03 however a big slug of them were MD11 guys in PDX.

How do DPAs vs DALPAs stances on scope compare?

I'm a commuter on reserve at Delta. I have been for almost 4 years and not by choice. I'm on the smallest aircraft we fly. I NEVER MAKE MORE THAN 70 HOURS PER MONTH. In a few days, I will have sat 7 reserve days. I will have flown flown 2 1-days, a 4-day, and sat 2 short calls (1 of which I didn't get used) for a total of less than 22 hours credit. I was away from home all 7 days. Our contract sucks. I do this all for just over 80,000/year. I get paid 840 hours a year. There is nothing I can do to make more money other than spend my 12-13 days at home away from home and hope for a green slip or two per month. Then I would get to spend no time with my family. This job is great. We don't need any improvements to our contract (sarcasm). We're only one of the biggest airlines in the world even after outsourcing half of our domestic flying. It seems to me we can do better.

Heyas Shiz,

This is a critical observation, and I recommend everyone read your post again.

EVERYONE I talk to says that we need an administration change, but when I explain the course of action required, and tell them it's much less onerous than voting in the DPA (AND we get to keep the money & infrastructure), I get a blank look.

1) Recall the LEC reps you don't like.

Put the recall resolution on the agenda for the LEC meeting. One every 3 months gives you plenty of time to marshal your resources. Assuming you are in the majority, and the resolution passes, it goes out to a vote. Again, assuming you are in the majority (at least of those who bother to vote), it's bye bye.

2) Vote in LEC reps you DO like.

3) Once you get the reps in place, recall the MEC officers. THIS can be done VERY quickly, and can be done with a special MEC meeting.

4) Replace them with MEC officers you do like.

5) Ferret out the people in the committee positions. THIS is where the real power base of DALPA is....never forget that. Why do you think the rep in NYC that got unelected wound up there? These are appointed positions and they DO NOT CHANGE when there is a leadership change. These are the people to present the data to the MEC when it's in session....


With the exception of ATL (in which I assume the politicos can marshal a healthy counter-insurgency...nobody likes getting forced out of office), with 3,000 pilots, you could own any LECs you wanted. Even if you assume that 2 out of 3 of those guys filled out a card "just to show'em" or find it easier than getting involved with a real effort to change or running for office, you can still target one or two reps that would shake things up pretty well.

Given the political situation, you don't need to get rid of every LEC rep. A few phone calls to reps that think like you do will provide a short list of LEC reps to target. Because of the post-merger base structure, you can now put together a voting block that would allow you to pretty much do what you want.

But all this requires a modicum of effort. You actually might have to show up at an LEC meeting, and gosh, you might also have to go online and vote once or twice.

Yet at that, it is MUCH easier than getting a new bargaining agent in place. Not only that, once you own the MEC, you pick up the phone, and you tell ALPA National what's what, or we're taking our 12,000 dues paying members across the road. Money talks....

Nu

True. True.

LOL. I just saw the "VERY discrete pilot," as he advertises Saturday. I wonder what a black light test would show in the back of that bird?

Heyas Carl,

Watch what happens with the negotiating committee "election".

If they change up the players, doesn't that amount to the same thing that they are complaining about...IE changing the lineup before the big game?

Nu

Thanks for the data. After I read it, I called a year 4 bud at sw who gladly shared with me that his W-2 was $128K in 2010 (not including 401K match and profit share). He said that flew approximately 800 hours and never worked more than 13 days in any month (he hates working extra.) He also commutes (SAN-LAS). The delta is $4K/month for those math challenged. (add in $6K for "lost" match to get apples-apples). :)

I'm not a big rah-rah union guy either way. I'm retired military so I don't really understand the union culture (yet). When I was hired at DAL ten years ago, I clearly remember the DALPA guy coming into our indoc class and telling us all that "this was the last job we'd ever have" and we'd all be captains in "seven years." I was furloughed five months later and I've had five additional jobs until I came back to DAL in 2008. I'm not a captain, in fact not even close and probably will never see it at DAL, although I've been flying professionally and internationally for most of the last 28 years and was an aircraft commander, instructor pilot and line check airman in an international heavy jet for most of that time. Currently, I'm a very junior narrow body FO in LA.

That being said...I'm not anti or pro ALPA. Obviously, their promises did not come true. Still, I hope they will represent my interests in this next contract and further. I want, what most on this board seem to want, some sort of restoration of the career I thought I was signing on to when I left and retired from the Air Force with a stellar and promising career...a profession that I could be proud of, one that would compensate me and my family for our accomplishments, and offer incentive to continue to excel.

My DPA card went in today. Not because I don't believe ALPA will represent me, but because I don't want my union to fail me once again. As a DAL 73 guy who flies much more demanding rigs, I want SWA rates and scope right now. I don't care what that means to me in regards to days on or off, etc. Compensate me for what my neighbor makes, whose flying under much better work rules, right now.

My recollection is the last time ALPA did a contract survey was in preparation for Contract 2000.

Honestly, I thought it was very well done. You were given 100 "votes" and got to allocate them as you saw fit. It forced you to prioritize what you wanted. If scope was your number one priority (and didn't care about anything else) you could give all 100 "votes" to scope. The same with pay, retirement, reserve, etc, but you only had 100 "votes" to spread around. If you took it seriously, it forced you to think...

With regard to DPA:

For the last month or so, on every trip I've flown the co-pilot has brought up the subject of DPA. (In the interest of full disclosure I sent in my card last fall.) Similarly when I've been in the van going to (or from) the hotel with another crew, the subject invariably comes up.

I think there is significant interest in DPA far beyond the number of cards they've received. I think it's fair to say everyone I've talked to is very concerned about the lack of leadership from DALPA (as well as ALPA national). I don't think it will take much of a mis-step by DALPA (or national) for a flood of cards to come in.

This is not meant to be flame-bait, but just one man's observations...