From the MEC Chairman's letter of today:

Wow! Terrific! I sure would not have guessed that! The MEC will be providing us with the "opener itself."

Oh well...that euphoria didn't last long. The above statement is a flat out lie. In past contracts, our union released a highly detailed summary of the opener after it was exchanged with management. I remember one over 20 pages in length showing the details of every section and what we were demanding in each section. Why would TO say such a thing when there are thousands of us that remember just the opposite?

Second, "...the opener will be largely conceptual in nature?" How does that square with the previous sentence that states: "which will provide you with an introduction to the contract opener as well as the opener itself."

But instead of any critical thinking at all, we have a number of folks here dying to portray this as the start of something really big. Sigh...

I don't know if I've ever read a single paragraph wherein each sentence walked back the previous sentence. Now we're down to some sort of "largely conceptual" document that will allow us some "understanding" where and in what sections we will "seek improvements." So TO will have done his duty with a document that says we'll be seeking improvements somewhere in Scope. This will allow some members to think that we're shooting for a reversing in outsourcing, while the actual opener may be to only hold the line on outsourcing and close the RAH loophole. Close the loophole with more "rock solid" language that is.

What an embarrassing straw man. The members knowing what their bargaining agent is opening with...is NOT negotiating in public. That is a pathetic attempt to make Delta pilots feel good about being mushroomed.

I've got to say guys, I'm disappointed with the level of critical reading here. If this attribute of ours doesn't get better, we'll get steamrolled.

Now cue up the usual suspects who tell me to go retire somewhere, or take that negative ALPA versus DPA crap somewhere else.

Carl

Then post the language.

Carl

Carl;
DAL has done conceptual openers in the past. This is where the history is coming from. Go ask your reps if they are on board with this and why. Then come back and tell us why conceptual openers that do not nail down everything to a T are better for a pilot group.

What this means is the MEC gave laser specific direction to the Negotiation committee on bullet point items in each section and then they present a conceptual opener to the company as to not give away the store.

I will wait and see what the opener is and then read it and the updates from the reps from around the system. I bet that you will get a good idea where we are going if you cannot for some reason glean it out of the opener.

You can read it for yourself, good sir. You are part of C20. I'm not going to post union literature on a public forum.

If you need the path, here you go:

1. Air Line Pilots Association, International
2. "enter your alpa # & password"
3. "click on" drop down menu, "My MEC/LEC"
4. Select "DAL020LEC"
5. Select the "library" menu/option
6. Choose the "updates" folder, and
7. Filter the list for "Chairman's"

It's the letter dated 10-17-2011. It is also a PDF document, so if you want to quickly find the remark, search "poker", it'll take you right to the wording.

GJ

Look acl, that's not how a Section 6 openers exchange works. If Delta has done it that way ever in the past, I'd be shocked. It was never the way we did it at NWA. And since we're all Delta now, you cannot state what TO said regarding this being the way it's been done in the past. It's BS. But more importantly, TO's own words betray what you're trying to spin:

If this was all management was getting as well because Delta just exchanges "concepts", why would he need to say this?:

If we're getting the same "conceptual" document that management is getting, wouldn't that be "negotiating in public"?

It's OK though. Let's stop all this negativity and talk about the next AE. Do you think will see some advancement? How about tying up with Hawaiian or Alaska? What's the latest rumor there? Think that will make us hire soon?

Carl

Hell ya!!!!

Uh, what about the Japanese government? I missed that part...

Opening Haneda. Bad for Delta. Good for AMR.

OK, here's the actual language:

---------------------------------------------------------------------

The Negotiating Committee will provide the MEC with a detailed statistical analysis of the results of the Contract Survey to guide our opening proposal. No, the line pilots will not be receiving a summary of our opening PWA proposal. This would be like betting in a game of poker with your hand exposed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Tell me Gear Jerk...did you go through all that trouble thinking it would prove me wrong?

Carl

Carl,
What do want? If Dalpa comes out and asks for a 50% raise and then only gets a 49% raise, I'm sure you'd be te first person telling us how the MEC failed.