Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: B737 CA
Posts: 1,518
It's undoubtedly Scope up, but that's the problem.
Everyone always says Scope is number one, not money. Here we have a deal that improves Scope and the proportion of outsourced flying, but has marginal money. And it doesn't compute for a lot of us. In fact, We've always sold scope for money, and here we're actually making a purchase.
Everyone is shiIIing themselves, because they've been caught in this contradiction.
Everyone always says Scope is number one, not money. Here we have a deal that improves Scope and the proportion of outsourced flying, but has marginal money. And it doesn't compute for a lot of us. In fact, We've always sold scope for money, and here we're actually making a purchase.
Everyone is shiIIing themselves, because they've been caught in this contradiction.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
One quick question, before I answer your post. Are you currently, as your title says, a regional CA?
Wrong. If we vote this in, it will be only because many junior (former RJ pilots) voted YES. Current RJ pilots will view this as the last straw for taking away a bigger chunk of their chance for a mainline job. They will not consider it struck work...they will consider it payback. Book it.
Carl
Carl
The overwhelming majority of the names on the seniority lists at the vendor airlines cringe at the thought of scope eroding by just one more airframe. Any that don't are likely the 'lifer' type, and those aren't the ones now at Delta with a chance to vote.
I can't imagine they'd become less-so when they're the ones at the company that outsources those jets out.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: B737 CA
Posts: 1,518
Yessir, Compass to be exact. I feel a little out of place participating in the T/A debate here, but I'm quite close to flowing and will likely live under this T/A for a few years. I don't get a vote, but it will certainly affect me. Understand that my views on scope are considerably colored by having seen the two-tier outsourcing system up close and personal for the last eight years.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
Dumbest way to bargain I've ever seen. Seriously. I am stunned by that "logic".
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
OK, thanks. If you're ready to flow...
I'll be glad to stipulate we're probably grossly overpaying for Section1 improvements, but it's hard to tell how much the most important section is worth. You're forgetting (/not aware yet) that this TA does a lot of cleaning up in aisle 1, not just the DCI end.
Regardless, the mechanism for dumping 50-seaters is contingent upon deals with DCI carriers and lessors, and those entities aren't going to let Delta out of contracts without some quid pro quo. Now, Bombardier would probably bend over backwards to trade in 50-seaters for C-Series at mainline, but Skywest wouldn't.
You can be livid all day long that we're funding and facilitating the trade of 50-seaters, and you can argue we're not getting paid enough, but you can't argue the company can simply upgauge the fleet without this, or some similar maneuver. You also have to acknowledge they're [deleted] if we do nothing... but we're just as [deleted] if we do nothing. Hence the marginal rates.
I stand by the post above, but not too close, because of all the shiIIing...
Hope you get to move to Delta soon.
Regards,
Sink r8.
You know, that thought actually occurred to me on day one. I thought "you know, if scope really was better like ALPA is saying, that kinda makes the mediocre pay raises defensible." But if ALPA really considered themselves giving up negotiating capital for this section 1, they got taken to the cleaners. The changes to section 1 simply allow management to do what they sorely wanted and needed to do to make outsourcing continue to work: replace old inefficient airframes with efficient new ones. It makes DCI cheaper, and once again makes mainline pilots the choice of last resort.
Regardless, the mechanism for dumping 50-seaters is contingent upon deals with DCI carriers and lessors, and those entities aren't going to let Delta out of contracts without some quid pro quo. Now, Bombardier would probably bend over backwards to trade in 50-seaters for C-Series at mainline, but Skywest wouldn't.
You can be livid all day long that we're funding and facilitating the trade of 50-seaters, and you can argue we're not getting paid enough, but you can't argue the company can simply upgauge the fleet without this, or some similar maneuver. You also have to acknowledge they're [deleted] if we do nothing... but we're just as [deleted] if we do nothing. Hence the marginal rates.
I stand by the post above, but not too close, because of all the shiIIing...
Hope you get to move to Delta soon.
Regards,
Sink r8.
All Comair 50s seat 50 (this includes the Comair 50s at SKW, ASA, 9E, and XJ, by the way)
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
What is the cost of breaking contracts with the regionals? Unless DL has signed some poison pill agreements just so that they can't get out of them, I doubt its that much. When DL fired ACA when they tried their little Independance Air stunt, all DL was on the hook for were the leases on the D328 jets. It was easy to replace too.
You are where I heard it from, and it makes sense as a number of the NNP work rules are quite concessionary especially from a staffing perspective. It is absolutely asinine to then go negotiate/pay for an early out and *hope* to get a similar number of pilots that are 100% going to retire anyway to retire sooner and calling that a wash. The lost positions will be lost forever and the retirements that maybe would have offset them initially would have occured anyway.
Dumbest way to bargain I've ever seen. Seriously. I am stunned by that "logic".
Dumbest way to bargain I've ever seen. Seriously. I am stunned by that "logic".
Again, I think we've been conditioned to work harder not smarter.
Contracts are to protect us from ourselves I think more than from the Company.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
What is the cost of breaking contracts with the regionals? Unless DL has signed some poison pill agreements just so that they can't get out of them, I doubt its that much. When DL fired ACA when they tried their little Independance Air stunt, all DL was on the hook for were the leases on the D328 jets. It was easy to replace too.
Do you think they might sue, tough?
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