Details on Delta TA
#141
Ok good. We're making some progress. You said "eliminate that gap." You didn't say "close that gap," i.e. make it smaller. You said "eliminate." Good! So when do you see DALPA announcing this objective of restoration? Or if they don't want to call it restoration, what will they call it? What kind of time frame do you think is reasonable to accomplish this objective?
I expect them to get me as much as they can at every opportunity. FWIW, this isn't progress with me. I've always felt this way.
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#142
You can ask all you want but being able to get it when it will far exceed anyone else in the industry is another thing. We got C2K rates via pattern bargaining off of United. Who can we pattern off of now?
Would I like to have it? Heck yes I would! But I guess I'm just pessimistic (or realistic) about being able to get it.
Denny
Would I like to have it? Heck yes I would! But I guess I'm just pessimistic (or realistic) about being able to get it.
Denny
I agree. We all want it. We need every carrier making progress to grease that skid. It's getting there.
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#143
You can ask all you want but being able to get it when it will far exceed anyone else in the industry is another thing. We got C2K rates via pattern bargaining off of United. And they got it from pattern bargaining off of us. Who can we pattern off of now?
Would I like to have it? Heck yes I would! But I guess I'm just pessimistic (or realistic) about being able to get it.
Denny
Would I like to have it? Heck yes I would! But I guess I'm just pessimistic (or realistic) about being able to get it.
Denny
We've indicated (through both our actions and the tone we have set) that we don't expect an aggressive pattern. We've indicated that we're more interested in being "reasonable" than we are in restoring our profession and our careers. At least in part because of the success of our company post bankruptcy, we've been in a position of leadership within our profession. In some ways, we've set a tone (and a pattern) that works against anyone else being able to get the kinds of improvements that are necessary for restoration.
I agree we all "want" to have our pay restored. But if we're going to hang our hat on pattern bargaining, we're going to have to find a way to create a more aggressive pattern. Novel idea: Perhaps that could start with setting an objective and quantifying it.
Or we could just focus on how unprecedented it would be to get the level of improvements necessary and how no one else is doing it first. In other words, we could give up and resign ourselves to accepting bankruptcy as a reset...
#144
I believe you. The problem I see with that is it is exactly DALPA's mantra. Coming from DALPA, I think it's a cop out. It's political doublespeak that doesn't really say anything. No objective that can be quantified... so they can claim success with whatever they are able to get. It's classic CYA.
You're a pretty big DALPA supporter, right? DALPA thinks it's very significant progress. How do you reconcile that?
You're a pretty big DALPA supporter, right? DALPA thinks it's very significant progress. How do you reconcile that?
#145
Best Way to Improve C2015
While I voted "No" on C2012 I thought the best part of the contract was its short duration - we are now in a position (even without pattern bargaining) to make some significant gains (my definition of significant is >10%/year increases in pay). The thing to remember (and this is why the company fights so hard to keep our pay and benefits down) is in order to keep other employee unions off the property the other employee groups benefit (almost directly) from any improvements in our contract. Because a number of things are unique to the pilots job we should look to increase our benefits in other areas - per diem, training pay, value of vacation day, more vacation for senior pilots, better pay for distributed training, etc. Although those by themselves will not make us whole it will improve our chances of an overall good contract.
#146
Monetizing pay banding so that it's not a concession?
This has got nothing to do with the rest of the world. Picketing is a complete waste of effort. We will never win anything in the court of public opinion. Bankruptcy judges are -- for the time being -- irrelevant. It's about leverage and negotiating. Period.
#147
ALPA always says we don't live in a vacuum. Unbelievable that even today there are pilots like you that can't admit the voluntary concessions before bankruptcy were a huge mistake that cost us all a lot of money. We should have realized that these companied were going bankrupt and there was nothing we could do about it. Because of our ignorance, we have paid more than any other group. Pretty sad considering we are the only group with representation. Your post actually scares me. I can see the same thing happening again someday.
Is there a parallel universe where we tried it your way, gave DAL the finger and just waited for the judge to decide on the 1113(c) filing? Full pay till the last day? Did it finally work?
Tell us! Did the judge let us keep our C2K pay rates? How about the DB plan? What about PRPs? Did we still get the equity stake and profit sharing? The seat on the BOD?
Or did the judge dissolve our contract and kick us in the nuts?
Is this guy there too?
Or is your entire platform an overblown example of Monday morning quarterbacking?
Eliminate uncertainty.
#148
#149
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 710
Is there a parallel universe where we tried it your way, gave DAL the finger and just waited for the judge to decide on the 1113(c) filing? Full pay till the last day? Did it finally work?
Tell us! Did the judge let us keep our C2K pay rates? How about the DB plan? What about PRPs? Did we still get the equity stake and profit sharing? The seat on the BOD?
Or did the judge dissolve our contract and kick us in the nuts?
Is this guy there too?
Or is your entire platform an overblown example of Monday morning quarterbacking?
Eliminate uncertainty.
Tell us! Did the judge let us keep our C2K pay rates? How about the DB plan? What about PRPs? Did we still get the equity stake and profit sharing? The seat on the BOD?
Or did the judge dissolve our contract and kick us in the nuts?
Is this guy there too?
Or is your entire platform an overblown example of Monday morning quarterbacking?
Eliminate uncertainty.
#150
Is there a parallel universe where we tried it your way, gave DAL the finger and just waited for the judge to decide on the 1113(c) filing? Full pay till the last day? Did it finally work?
Tell us! Did the judge let us keep our C2K pay rates? How about the DB plan? What about PRPs? Did we still get the equity stake and profit sharing? The seat on the BOD?
Or did the judge dissolve our contract and kick us in the nuts?
Is this guy there too?
Or is your entire platform an overblown example of Monday morning quarterbacking?
Eliminate uncertainty.
Tell us! Did the judge let us keep our C2K pay rates? How about the DB plan? What about PRPs? Did we still get the equity stake and profit sharing? The seat on the BOD?
Or did the judge dissolve our contract and kick us in the nuts?
Is this guy there too?
Or is your entire platform an overblown example of Monday morning quarterbacking?
Eliminate uncertainty.
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