Details on Delta TA
09-19-2014 | 04:09 AM
#2011
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,688
Likes: 66
You were in college when we went through this? And you have the gall lecture us on how you would haVe done it? Reality is over 60% at pretty much every airline voted yes. Would you have been one of them? You don't know because you were not put into that posistion, and hopefully never will be. Some of the most vocal vote no types at the beginning were the ones pleading others to vote yes towards the end. You seem to have all the answers at your tender young age. Do us and all the pilots in the industry a huge favor and get involved. Run for your local lec as I'm sure with your steely-eyed resolve you will be elected in a landslide. From there it should be obvious to all at the MEC what a treasure of leadership and intelect you are and you will be quickly elected as MEC chairman. My guess is one term and ALPA president. Good luck and I can't wait to have the leadership we deserve.
I was in college when this was happening. Our union should have realized that there was no way for us to save it from going bankrupt. To answer your questions, I would have been in favor of full pay until the bankruptcy. I do not think we should have taken any pay cuts prior to the bankruptcy. We then would have started the bankruptcy negotiations from a much higher position. We should have told the company that we knew what they already did. Bankruptcy was inevitable, and that we would negotiate in bankruptcy. This is all in hind sight. I think it is obvious that some mistakes were made. Hopefully they are not repeated.
09-19-2014 | 05:54 AM
#2012
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,562
Likes: 106
From: Road construction signholder
I was in college when this was happening. Our union should have realized that there was no way for us to save it from going bankrupt. To answer your questions, I would have been in favor of full pay until the bankruptcy. I do not think we should have taken any pay cuts prior to the bankruptcy. We then would have started the bankruptcy negotiations from a much higher position. We should have told the company that we knew what they already did. Bankruptcy was inevitable, and that we would negotiate in bankruptcy. This is all in hind sight. I think it is obvious that some mistakes were made. Hopefully they are not repeated.
09-19-2014 | 06:19 AM
#2013
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
If you didn't have any "skin" in the game you really don't have the right to lecture the union about what we should or should not have done back then. Going forward--yes. Lots of things are easy to say "woulda shoulda coulda" in hindsight, especially when you weren't even on the property and had nothing to gain or lose by hypthotheticals.
09-19-2014 | 06:39 AM
#2014
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,465
Likes: 0
From: A330 First Officer
What he's gonna find is that it ain't so easy when you are actually faced with that decision for real marbles. Of course, since he's young, he can afford to blow up a contract or two and still recover. If he doesn't get it all, and get it now, he'll complain. But in a few short years when he finds himself farther up the seniority list looking for grand slams instead of incremental gains that would have gotten him to the brass ring already, he'll sing a different song. My question as to that kind of tactic is why? SWA got incrementall gains for years, and all the vocals hold them up... continually... as the gold standard. No home runs... just singles and doubles. But somehow.. we're different. Fire away boys.
I think the reason that they are being held up as the "gold standard" is the fact that they have seen gains. We are still diggin ourselves out of a hole. We took a huge paycut for the paper protection of the "Bankruptcy protection letter". That worked out well and taught me that there really are no morals in business (that and the SERP's taught me that lesson).
I don't expect a homerun, as you put it, but in these times I do expect more than a COLA as a raise each year. These are the times that the union has kept saying "Be patient we will get them next time because the economic environment will be better" If not in this coming contract then that would make us the type of individuals that couldn't get lucky in a Bangkok cathouse with a fist full of $20's.
09-19-2014 | 06:46 AM
#2015
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
You were in college when we went through this? And you have the gall lecture us on how you would haVe done it? Reality is over 60% at pretty much every airline voted yes. Would you have been one of them? You don't know because you were not put into that posistion, and hopefully never will be. Some of the most vocal vote no types at the beginning were the ones pleading others to vote yes towards the end. You seem to have all the answers at your tender young age. Do us and all the pilots in the industry a huge favor and get involved. Run for your local lec as I'm sure with your steely-eyed resolve you will be elected in a landslide. From there it should be obvious to all at the MEC what a treasure of leadership and intelect you are and you will be quickly elected as MEC chairman. My guess is one term and ALPA president. Good luck and I can't wait to have the leadership we deserve.
I voted no. I hope his message is not correct, gall aside.
You said 60% voted for prebankruptcy cuts at every airline. I wonder how that vote would have gone if they were unionized and that theoretical union took the stand that no matter what the employees did, the airlines were going to enter bankruptcy...The world may never know...
Last edited by scambo1; 09-19-2014 at 06:56 AM.
09-19-2014 | 06:57 AM
#2017
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
T,
I think the reason that they are being held up as the "gold standard" is the fact that they have seen gains. We are still diggin ourselves out of a hole. We took a huge paycut for the paper protection of the "Bankruptcy protection letter". That worked out well and taught me that there really are no morals in business (that and the SERP's taught me that lesson).
I don't expect a homerun, as you put it, but in these times I do expect more than a COLA as a raise each year. These are the times that the union has kept saying "Be patient we will get them next time because the economic environment will be better" If not in this coming contract then that would make us the type of individuals that couldn't get lucky in a Bangkok cathouse with a fist full of $20's.
I think the reason that they are being held up as the "gold standard" is the fact that they have seen gains. We are still diggin ourselves out of a hole. We took a huge paycut for the paper protection of the "Bankruptcy protection letter". That worked out well and taught me that there really are no morals in business (that and the SERP's taught me that lesson).
I don't expect a homerun, as you put it, but in these times I do expect more than a COLA as a raise each year. These are the times that the union has kept saying "Be patient we will get them next time because the economic environment will be better" If not in this coming contract then that would make us the type of individuals that couldn't get lucky in a Bangkok cathouse with a fist full of $20's.
09-19-2014 | 07:21 AM
#2020
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,263
Likes: 105
From: DAL 330
If you didn't have any "skin" in the game you really don't have the right to lecture the union about what we should or should not have done back then. Going forward--yes. Lots of things are easy to say "woulda shoulda coulda" in hindsight, especially when you weren't even on the property and had nothing to gain or lose by hypthotheticals.
I did not take it as him "lecturing" us. I voted for the big pay cut because I was led to believe it would keep us out of BK. I was wrong and feel that we as a pilot group were "taken to the cleaners" by management.
I now believe that we were going into BK with or without pay-cuts and management played us. I think there is something there when it is said that we unwittingly helped or participated in the reset to our wages.
Scoop - Just my 2 cents
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