Look folks, there's a reason DALPA won't touch the word restoration. There's a reason why guys like alfaromeo, slowplay, shiznit, tsquare, etc., won't ever use the word except to denigrate its use. There's a reason newbies like Oberon constantly state their opinions that restoration means nothing to anybody during negotiations. The reason all these various DALPA-oids hate that word is because it's so powerfully righteous. Restoration in C2K was used as an objective, a baseline, a rallying cry, and an easily understood argument to the NMB if it had come to that. Restoration worked.

When the Oberons out there continuously rant against the use of the word restoration, they're not doing so as advice to seek alternatives that would work better for us. They're doing so to desperately try to convince us to voluntarily surrender on the proven objective that would work.

Carl

 

Oberon- we're making more money right now than any airline in history. Let that sink in. How many Moaks of leverage is that worth on the standard scale?

 

So you think I know saying "restoration" would bring us a sucessful contract but I'm arguing against it because I don't want a successful contract? How does that make sense? I have to live with what's negotiated a lot longer than you do.

 

Margins are a percentage of net versus gross, and as such, meaningless to us who are hired labor. Margins are management's concern. All the NMB will care about is how many dollars are we demanding, and how many dollars does our company make. If our company makes a lot more dollars than the dollars we are demanding, the NMB will not consider it unreasonable.

Your continuous attempts to use metrics to persuade for the absolute minimization of pilot costs is harmful.

Irrelevant, but even you know that.

You are specifically arguing and working hard for the absolute minimization of pilot costs. That is your objective. Above is just one of many examples. What I don't understand is how you think anyone could miss it?

No you don't Oberon. You want the minimization of pilot costs. We've had a few guys here (mostly newbies) that believe in that because they feel it reduces the chance that they'll be furloughed. It's nothing new unfortunately. Your continuing to deny it is why your credibility is so shot here. You've been told this before and you've ignored it, but I'll say it again...You'd do your credibility some good if you would do more listening and learning.

See my previous post on that subject.

Carl

 

I don't know how many "Moaks" that is worth. I don't think "Moaks" is a thing. I do know making more money than any airline in history is favorable to us which is why I asked how it compared to 2000.

 

Oberon, as I told you many pages back, "Restoration" isn't a strategy, it is a GOAL.

Before you can decide on the strategy to achieve the goal, you have to SET A GOAL!

"A big number" is not a goal. RESTORED PAY RATES is a definable goal.

The strategy (as I also laid out pages ago) is to demonstrate to the company, the share holders, the press, and if necessary, to the NMB, that the Delta Pilots have been the biggest contributors to Delta's financial success.

Now it's payback time.

 

No, you do indeed want a "successful" contract. You just define a "successful" contract as one that minimizes pilot costs to Delta.

Because you're one of those pilots who's been convinced that it was pilot overreach that caused the bankruptcies. It's a story management and the Ford & Harrison union busting law firm has been using for over a decade now. Every once in a while, one of our own pilot members takes that as gospel instead of the union busting spin that it is. Once the victim has been convinced, the definition of success is redefined as getting to keep ones job. We see that here from time to time Oberon, you're not the first.

Your hope is to keep that job and never get furloughed. That's the negotiated outcome you hope to "live with."

Carl

 

Carl,

Am I still an ALPA/Company/Ford & Harrison operative now that I'm afraid I'll get furloughed? You've accused me of being each. I'm a little confused.

The demographics dictate that I'll never be furloughed from Delta unless there is some historic world economic depression. I'm pretty sure we can't negotiate against that. Needless to say, I'm not worried about being furloughed.

 

I don't know what "operative" means and I haven't accused you of such. What I have and am saying is that you are a product of that widely espoused "philosophy".

I have not accused you of that, therefore you're more than just a little confused.

You know better than that. Demographics don't dictate job security.

Yes you are. You're also worried that if pilots overreach, we'll all go bankrupt again.

Carl

 

Until you have a few thousand pilots on the list junior to you, you are very naïve if you are not worried.

We were hiring just a few months prior to 9-11, and we furloughed 400 guys a few months later, which eventually became over 1000 furloughs.

Think it can't happen again?