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-   -   Details on Delta TA (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/88532-details-delta-ta.html)

EdGrimley 06-07-2015 06:22 PM

Ignore the new guys sent here to stir the pot that are telling you you're asking for too much. They either aren't pilots or have agenda not aligned with the good of this profession.

The best defense is a good offense and that's what you are seeing here. These guys are here to divide and conquer, confuse and bastardize what should be the contract of the new millennial. Ignore them or they succeed.

Stick to your guns. Control what you can control. Speak to your reps. Push for accountability to turn down the wrong deal. Profit sharing will pay out a lot of dollars these next three years. A lot of $!!

If your rep pushes a bad deal, write down their name and let's have a conversation about where we go next. Push for C1 reps to be present for accounting of the vote.

If DALPA forces a bad landing there are two choices. Lot's of recalls or de-certification to let a new union/leadership take the reigns. Ignore all the other chaff. There are people sent here to get into your head and and make you let go of what you know you are worth as a Delta pilot and what this contract should be. For every ridiculous post they make I would simply post what improvements you believe should be in this contract. Remember those slick lines from management about sharing the success. They don't mind sharing with themselves and shareholders. It's time for the pilots to share at that level of success. The bankrupt years are long since past. It's time for a "historically good contract".

SharpestTool 06-07-2015 06:25 PM


Originally Posted by TED74 (Post 1898053)
They started listening to the pilots.

Maybe. If so, why weren't they listening in the first place? How will the company view the MEC now? Credible? How could they believe that when the MEC pulls a bait and switch? Will they reward us for electing a MEC that can't be relied upon to actually be the voice of the pilot group? Whose in charge here?

BusDrvr 06-07-2015 06:25 PM


Originally Posted by SharpestTool (Post 1898033)
Many on this board have set themselves up by having ridiculous and unrealistic expectations. Even if it is a good TA, it couldn't possibly be enough to satisfy many here. For example, someone just floated the rumor of pay raises that amounts to AMR + 2%, and we retain most of the PS. While one can debate the merit of that and the rest, it amounts to 21.5% compounded over 3 years. Know anyone in your neighborhood getting that deal? I certainly wouldn't be crying about it too loud.

That also would represent the top contract in the industry. Not good enough though. Really, nothing rational will meet the APC standard.

Not if the rumored 5.75% PS giveback is true.

SharpestTool 06-07-2015 06:29 PM


Originally Posted by BusDrvr (Post 1898061)
Not if the rumored 5.75% PS giveback is true.

Sure it is. 5.75% of that figure goes from variable (at risk) compensation to fixed compensation. Last time I checked, profit is not guaranteed. In fact I endured a bankruptcy as a consequence of the lack of profits.

NWA320pilot 06-07-2015 06:33 PM


Originally Posted by SharpestTool (Post 1898060)
Maybe. If so, why weren't they listening in the first place? How will the company view the MEC now? Credible? How could they believe that when the MEC pulls a bait and switch? Will they reward us for electing a MEC that can't be relied upon to actually be the voice of the pilot group? Whose in charge here?

That has been a question asked by many.....

TED74 06-07-2015 06:33 PM


Originally Posted by SharpestTool (Post 1898060)
Maybe. If so, why weren't they listening in the first place? How will the company view the MEC now? Credible? How could they believe that when the MEC pulls a bait and switch? Will they reward us for electing a MEC that can't be relied upon to actually be the voice of the pilot group? Whose in charge here?

I don't know why they weren't listening but hopefully they are now. And perhaps they were listening all along, but the pilots didn't start communicating until late in the game.

I don't care how the company views the MEC because I'm not sure it's relevant. The company doesn't reward anything...it tries to maximize profits and stock price (as every shareholder, including me, would expect). If the MEC is telling them they don't think the TA will pass, then the ball is back to the company.

I don't believe this offer is the last-best. I think it's the first-worst. And there's plenty of time to bring up the bar as the PS formula we're almost all happy with remains in place.

ImTumbleweed 06-07-2015 06:34 PM


Originally Posted by SharpestTool (Post 1898033)
Many on this board have set themselves up by having ridiculous and unrealistic expectations. Even if it is a good TA, it couldn't possibly be enough to satisfy many here. For example, someone just floated the rumor of pay raises that amounts to AMR + 2%, and we retain most of the PS. While one can debate the merit of that and the rest, it amounts to 21.5% compounded over 3 years. Know anyone in your neighborhood getting that deal? I certainly wouldn't be crying about it too loud.

That also would represent the top contract in the industry. Not good enough though. Really, nothing rational will meet the APC standard.

I have FIVE BILLION reasons to disagree with you.

FIVE BILLION.

SharpestTool 06-07-2015 06:38 PM


Originally Posted by TED74 (Post 1898070)
I don't know why they weren't listening bit hopefully they are now. And perhaps they were listening all along, but the pilots didn't start communicating until late in the game.

I don't care how the company views the MEC because I'm not sure it's relevant. The company doesn't reward anything...it tries to maximize profits and stock price (as every shareholder, including me, would expect). If the MEC is telling them they don't think the TA will pass, then the ball is back to the company.

I don't believe this offer is the last-best. I think it's the first-worst. And there's plenty of time to bring up the bar as the PS formula we're almost all happy with remains in place.

Would you negotiate with someone who says we have a deal and then says, well not really, just kidding? More importantly would you reward that behavior by offering them a superior deal? Remember, the MEC gave the green light for the table position. Most importantly, can you show me an example where that tactic has worked in this business? What airline union has actually pulled that off?

BusDrvr 06-07-2015 06:38 PM


Originally Posted by SharpestTool (Post 1898067)
Sure it is. 5.75% of that figure goes from variable (at risk) compensation to fixed compensation. Last time I checked, profit is not guaranteed. In fact I endured a bankruptcy as a consequence of the lack of profits.

Nothing is guaranteed. I can live with variable compensation. What bothers me is taking money out of one pocket and putting it in the other and calling it a raise. I question the motives of anyone that tries to sell that kind of logic.

ImTumbleweed 06-07-2015 06:38 PM


Originally Posted by SharpestTool (Post 1898067)
Sure it is. 5.75% of that figure goes from variable (at risk) compensation to fixed compensation. Last time I checked, profit is not guaranteed. In fact I endured a bankruptcy as a consequence of the lack of profits.

I (still) have FIVE BILLION reasons do disagree with you.

FIVE BILLION.


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