Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez

That 21.5% is in 2018. Just to be fair. Of the 14% THIS year, 5% of that is from the PS reduction. (I rounded down) The way I figure it, we are only getting an 8% pay increase this year, and the 21% pay increase in 2018 is similarly tainted but I have not run the numbers on it yet. I don't think I really need to do so.

Originally Posted by THEBRICK

With all the backroom deals and management bribes going on during this 6 month early TA, I'm surprised ATL hosting the world cup isn't on this TA. Anyone have photo shop? Maybe replace the ALPA or DALPA logo in place of the FIFA logo.

Originally Posted by ERflyer

This contract will raise our guaranteed pay rates 21.5% and if your projections for profit are accurate we will still get an additional 30% of W-2 in profit sharing even after trading some profit sharing for pay rates.

Originally Posted by gzsg

Explain to us the change in definition of PTIX for profit sharing?

The truth will come out. Another large and unnecessary concession that will cost us 1% of our W-2.

Originally Posted by Vikz09

How do you figure?

PS will go to 10% of 6 billion (600 million) our share is approximately 33% of that figure so 200 million. Then the 20%... (Oh and BTW did you see the little nugget in there how they would change how PTIX would be calculated). There will be little chance to make over 6 billion and get into that extra 10% bucket.

Currently, we have a extra 3.5 billion in at the 20% bucket. In my scenario, this year we make 6 billion in profit. PS would be 10% up to 2.5 billion or 250 million.... Then 3.5 billion at 20% or 700 million more for a total of 950 million. We get a third, so let's call it 317 million to the pilots.

Now with the new TA, we get 600 million as a employee group, pilots share is 200 million. That is a loss of 117 million each year for EVER. This TA is funded by PS give backs from the employee group. Our Union used to say we can't ask for that because the other employees will want that too. Now we apparently don't give a crap and will take away large sums of their PS and 117 million of our PS to fund this. Heck, we can't even get the training pay that FA's get around hear. This TA has more skeletons that a graveyard.

Originally Posted by EdGrimley

You will notice the DALPA sales team have colluded on some talking points early on (with many more to come I am sure). Taken from the public MEC webpage...

"Don't jump to conclusions. My personal opinion--as this is the final, max from the company, this should go to all pilots for our vote! It's OUR union, we should get our say!"

- Jan Donatelli

I think we need to look at the full language and have our say. I hated C12 at first and now looking back I realize how profitable it's been for the Delta Pilots.

- Brian Shinnick

It's easy to pick one or two issues that are "no" worthy, but there has to be a path forward and not just no. If the mec votes not to pass the ta forward then you abrogate your ability to have a democratic say into the outcome that affects 12,700 or so pilots. You concede to 10 mec members the inability to memrat, which, by the way, naysayers including dpa supporters, that memrat is paramount to ANY deal. So, in this case you don't, all others you do.

- John White

So it's only democratic if it goes to memrat. It's clear the majority want this sent back. As with the survey, the desires of the pilots are falling on deaf ears....again.

Another bogus play is stating pay rates combining hourly pay, profit sharing and DC against other airlines hourly pay but leaving out the fact AA or Fedex have a pension (for example) and what those numbers (combing the value of 60% FAE with hourly) would be worth. This is the kind of manipulative BS that makes the union lose credibility. They twist the info to sell. It's dishonest and a dirtbag way to operate. Do none of these guys feel any shame?

Here's an exchange between one of the company/union yesman and a line pilot who exposes some flawed logic.

Line Pilot: "My seat (88 Capt) still won't exceed the pay rate I had on the same seat in 2004 until 2017. No amount of evaluation of the language can change that simple fact. My NO vote is already planned. Send this back and get something real."

DALPA sales guy: $317 an hour in 2016 if you include profit sharing and DC contributions

Line Pilot: The hourly pay for 88 Capt in 2004 was $237. In 2016 it will be $236.62. It will not exceed that rate til 2017. PS is not guaranteed & DC is not current income. Let's compare apples to apples. Also in 2004 I was promised 60% FAE, a darn sight more than any DC or PS promise.

Does this manipulative sale job make anybody angry? It should. Eject the guys pulling this nonsense from ever doing union work regardless of what union survives.

Originally Posted by nwaf16dude

I'm pretty sure "The Sharpest Tool" is the gold bug guy.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

Care to share with the rest of us where you found it?

Originally Posted by gzsg

Explain to us the change in definition of PTIX for profit sharing?

The truth will come out. Another large and unnecessary concession that will cost us 1% of our W-2.