Details on Delta TA
06-11-2015 | 08:45 AM
#7713
Works Every Weekend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,506
Likes: 0
From: 737 ATL
OK so what block hour percentage are we currently flying in the AF/KLM JV right now?
51
Because we are supposed to be flying 50% already, although we got rolled when we allowed 50% to be defined as 48.5%.
Those are the EASKs.
Where does the 67% block hour number come from then? Even if thats with VA added in, the split with VA would have to be enormous (and in our favor) to put the entire trans Atlantic at that number.
OK. I think this is where people get confused. We have 67% because that includes the Delta UK flying. AF/KLM doesn't fly London to the US. That's why our share seems to be overstated. Don't ask me why, but "Bundle 1" in the AF/KLM JV agreement included Delta flights to the UK.
Right now we currently fly 67% block hours and that is beause of the EASK measurement methodology.
That's correct, But since the last AF/KLM JV we now have a Virgin Atlantic deal as well. The new language takes London out of the formula for AF/KLM. It has been overcome by events since the purchase of Virgin Atlantic and our deal with them.
If we abandon EASK and only go for a pernamant 49/51 reset (in management's favor, once again…WTH by the way?) then how low can our 67% go, including AF/KLM and VA total?
They didn't give that number because Paris and Amsterdam are now completely separated from London. Two different deals. The 67 is now not really relevant. That makes sense. I understand why they did it.
Your point is well taken though. If we did calculate the number, it would be lower. We have given management yet another pretty large scope concession.
51
Because we are supposed to be flying 50% already, although we got rolled when we allowed 50% to be defined as 48.5%.
Those are the EASKs.
Where does the 67% block hour number come from then? Even if thats with VA added in, the split with VA would have to be enormous (and in our favor) to put the entire trans Atlantic at that number.
OK. I think this is where people get confused. We have 67% because that includes the Delta UK flying. AF/KLM doesn't fly London to the US. That's why our share seems to be overstated. Don't ask me why, but "Bundle 1" in the AF/KLM JV agreement included Delta flights to the UK.
Right now we currently fly 67% block hours and that is beause of the EASK measurement methodology.
That's correct, But since the last AF/KLM JV we now have a Virgin Atlantic deal as well. The new language takes London out of the formula for AF/KLM. It has been overcome by events since the purchase of Virgin Atlantic and our deal with them.
If we abandon EASK and only go for a pernamant 49/51 reset (in management's favor, once again…WTH by the way?) then how low can our 67% go, including AF/KLM and VA total?
They didn't give that number because Paris and Amsterdam are now completely separated from London. Two different deals. The 67 is now not really relevant. That makes sense. I understand why they did it.
Your point is well taken though. If we did calculate the number, it would be lower. We have given management yet another pretty large scope concession.
Here's the bottom line apples to apples numbers from the scope briefing:
These are ALPA's numbers.
For AF/KLM-
Current book -- we are supposed to be at 53% of block hours.
Management's only been flying 51%. Thus the grievance win.
The new contract allows them to go down to 49%.
Virgin Atlantic and London are now completely separate.
That JV remains unchanged. (although don't get me started on whether it has been good for us)
06-11-2015 | 08:48 AM
#7714
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Because of the loss of LCA trips alone! Do you know how many LCA trips there are in most catagories? Worth at least the 8% pay raise alone! Don't let the dog and pony show fool you-- they'll say only a handful are affected... Hell even reps that voted no say that--because they haven't researched it yet. All those lost trips trickle down folks.It will affect every FO substantially with trip seniority and progression and Greenslips will dry up like the martian soil. Spread the word! U just can't accept this TA if you are an FO.
Carl
06-11-2015 | 08:48 AM
#7715
New Hire
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: 330B
First time poster. In my 28 years in this business I cannot think of a bigger disappointment than this TA. In this negotiating environment this is truly astounding.
We can all sit around debating the worst aspects of this debacle or do like Carl suggested and get busy cleaning house. The MEC must be purged and any yes voting reps recalled.
Get busy. Oh-and send in your renewed DPA card in case all else fails.
We can all sit around debating the worst aspects of this debacle or do like Carl suggested and get busy cleaning house. The MEC must be purged and any yes voting reps recalled.
Get busy. Oh-and send in your renewed DPA card in case all else fails.
06-11-2015 | 08:50 AM
#7716
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
That is the issue!
This agreement has the potential to redefine DALs (EASK) share to go to roughly 35% compared to today. If we refleeted to smaller long range planes, it could go lower than that.
This is how you dismantle Delta Air lines. What's the next shoe? Codeshare with emirates, etihad, or Qatar? If this passes, expect to be even more of a domestic airline.
This agreement has the potential to redefine DALs (EASK) share to go to roughly 35% compared to today. If we refleeted to smaller long range planes, it could go lower than that.
This is how you dismantle Delta Air lines. What's the next shoe? Codeshare with emirates, etihad, or Qatar? If this passes, expect to be even more of a domestic airline.
Carl
06-11-2015 | 08:51 AM
#7717
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,184
Likes: 0
this^^^^^^^^^ right^^^^^^^^^^^ here^^^^^^^^^^^^
06-11-2015 | 08:52 AM
#7718
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 341
Likes: 0
I just can't get my brain wrapped around why this was not pushed back...but I really can't understand why ANY FO rep would have even thought about a yes. It hurts all but on the FO side it is complete B.S.. I feel completely betrayed.
Carl it's time to order the Code Reds!
Carl it's time to order the Code Reds!
06-11-2015 | 08:54 AM
#7719
Senior by choice
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 433
Likes: 1
It is definitely time for the torches and pitchforks.
Those that are using Tim Caplinger as an excuse not to send in a DPA card are just using that as a crutch for their inaction or fear of challenging ALPA. He has repeatedly stated he is not going to run for DPA office. His job is to get the DPA to representation vote.
Those that are using Tim Caplinger as an excuse not to send in a DPA card are just using that as a crutch for their inaction or fear of challenging ALPA. He has repeatedly stated he is not going to run for DPA office. His job is to get the DPA to representation vote.
06-11-2015 | 08:55 AM
#7720
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 489
Likes: 0
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