Details on Delta TA
06-12-2015, 05:12 PM
#8201
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 115
Originally Posted by Pilotfo64
I'm no reserve guy but someone in fb mentioned that
"Maybe they want to do this so you cannot move your x-days in a "Rolling Thunder" strategy. You won't be able to move an additional x-day at the end of a block because they've already assigned a short call to you on that day. Just another reason to vote NO."
23.S.5.d
The TA will let Scheduling put you on short call the first day after x-days, as long as they do it before you start those x-days
What do yall think?
"Maybe they want to do this so you cannot move your x-days in a "Rolling Thunder" strategy. You won't be able to move an additional x-day at the end of a block because they've already assigned a short call to you on that day. Just another reason to vote NO."
23.S.5.d
The TA will let Scheduling put you on short call the first day after x-days, as long as they do it before you start those x-days
What do yall think?
06-12-2015, 05:19 PM
#8202
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: 757 Left
Posts: 169
Originally Posted by Professor
Any analysis is going to be imperfect because of the historical variability of career trajectories in the industry.
Its just the way it is. Shall we compare ourselves to those of us at DL who still have pensions as well?
Current state going forward is one of the few ways and contract comparison will be effective.
Its just the way it is. Shall we compare ourselves to those of us at DL who still have pensions as well?
Current state going forward is one of the few ways and contract comparison will be effective.
The pilots at American made huge concessions in 2003 (with the rest of labor at AMR) to stave off bankruptcy and protect their retirements. It worked for almost a decade, but labor paid in work rules and scope. They still have a frozen plan that is not "owned" by the PBGC.
The UAL and USAir pilots got little over the PBGC. We have a mixed bag at DAL.
At AMR I would have less seniority, but a much better retirement.
Hard to go apples to apples.
Still, this contract missed the target time landing window and didn't deliver the payload.
06-12-2015, 05:20 PM
#8203
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by ERflyer
Everyone looks at this through their own prism. I look at the contract as a whole and how it effects me and my family.
If anyone, an FO, thinks this contract is bad for them - they should vote No.
But look at everything and make the decision based on the entire contract with as much knowledge as you can gain through all sources.
I do like the money (would have liked more) but I am still evaluating everything.
If anyone, an FO, thinks this contract is bad for them - they should vote No.
But look at everything and make the decision based on the entire contract with as much knowledge as you can gain through all sources.
I do like the money (would have liked more) but I am still evaluating everything.
06-12-2015, 05:20 PM
#8204
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Professor
I owe everyone more JV stuff, but simply put this is not a decrease in current JV flying nor should we see any ill effects from this language in the future. I'll cover this later, really.
But it gets worse. The change from EASK's to block hours ALLOWS the company to drastically down-gauge to smaller (lower paying) aircraft while shifting those extra DELTA PASSENGERS to a JV partner...and be in full compliance with the contract.
Read the language folks. It's all there.
Carl
06-12-2015, 05:21 PM
#8205
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2011
Posts: 275
Originally Posted by notEnuf
I don't believe the question was answered so I'll ask again, Why? What purpose does that serve? I couldn't get the clue either so can I have an answer please? The pay rates say 7/1/2015 not after a vote is finished.
If the TA passes you would see retro pay (12 days) in your July 30, 2015 paycheck.
And as I said earlier post, Delta's earnings report is on July 15, 2015.
It's not just about the money we made in the quarter, it's about management beating their chest at the earnings report that the biggest union on property has a contract. And Delta will be able to have more flexibility in their fleet and pilots will be more productive and so on. And that one quarter of profits has funded the pilot contract for the next 13 quarters.
06-12-2015, 05:21 PM
#8206
New Hire
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by SayAlt
Serious question:
Mgmt HATES it's employees. They LOATH their employees. If they could they would fire every single one of their employees and replace them with robots. HR is an "executive's" worst nightmare. That isn't going to change.
Ever.
.
Mgmt HATES it's employees. They LOATH their employees. If they could they would fire every single one of their employees and replace them with robots. HR is an "executive's" worst nightmare. That isn't going to change.
Ever.
.
06-12-2015, 05:24 PM
#8207
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Originally Posted by ERflyer
With this TA:
With a PTIX of $0B your payout will be 5.0% more.
With a PTIX of $6B your payout will be 15.5% more.
With a PTIX of $10B your payout will be 22% more.
Without this TA:
With a PTIX of $0B your payout will be 16.5% less.
With a PTIX of $6B your payout will be 0% more.
With a PTIX of $10B your payout will be 6.5% more.
Clearly you have much more money with the TA. You also have downside protection and will STILL make much more with increased profits.
With a PTIX of $0B your payout will be 5.0% more.
With a PTIX of $6B your payout will be 15.5% more.
With a PTIX of $10B your payout will be 22% more.
Without this TA:
With a PTIX of $0B your payout will be 16.5% less.
With a PTIX of $6B your payout will be 0% more.
With a PTIX of $10B your payout will be 6.5% more.
Clearly you have much more money with the TA. You also have downside protection and will STILL make much more with increased profits.
Ok, it looks to me like you refuse to acknowledge that approximately 6% is a swap with profit sharing. If you will not acknowledge that, we have nothing further to talk about.
Denny
06-12-2015, 05:25 PM
#8208
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
That is completely wrong Carl. It just is.
Again 1% is about four round trips.
Do you know how many seasonals we bring up and down every year? It's mid double digits.
Where precisely in this fleet plan do you see any aircraft that will be flown to Europe that is a down gauge?
No smaller aircraft in our fleet now or in the future can even do JFK to Europe.
Please use facts and numbers.
The TA binds the JV flying. Not the settlement.
Either way, this is the deal. Attempting to force compliance via numbers has not worked in five years. This gives us realistic goals we can hold the company to, quickly.
Please take notes and ask questions at the road shows.
Again 1% is about four round trips.
Do you know how many seasonals we bring up and down every year? It's mid double digits.
Where precisely in this fleet plan do you see any aircraft that will be flown to Europe that is a down gauge?
No smaller aircraft in our fleet now or in the future can even do JFK to Europe.
Please use facts and numbers.
The TA binds the JV flying. Not the settlement.
Either way, this is the deal. Attempting to force compliance via numbers has not worked in five years. This gives us realistic goals we can hold the company to, quickly.
Please take notes and ask questions at the road shows.
06-12-2015, 05:27 PM
#8209
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 541
Professor, the key points I see from your JV analysis are these: Delta is currently out of EASK compliance on the low end. After the change they'd be above the block hour minimum with room to reduce. That sure as heck sounds like a concession to me. If Delta corrected the EASK ratio as required what would the block hour ratio be then? I see where you're going with the downside protection angle but I'd need more data to be sold.
06-12-2015, 05:27 PM
#8210
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,529
Originally Posted by Professor
That is completely wrong Carl. It just is.
Again 1% is about four round trips.
Do you know how many seasonals we bring up and down every year? It's mid double digits.
Where precisely in this fleet plan do you see any aircraft that will be flown to Europe that is a down gauge?
No smaller aircraft in our fleet now or in the future can even do JFK to Europe.
Please use facts and numbers.
The TA binds the JV flying. Not the settlement.
Either way, this is the deal. Attempting to force compliance via numbers has not worked in five years. This gives us realistic goals we can hold the company to, quickly.
Please take notes and ask questions at the road shows.
Again 1% is about four round trips.
Do you know how many seasonals we bring up and down every year? It's mid double digits.
Where precisely in this fleet plan do you see any aircraft that will be flown to Europe that is a down gauge?
No smaller aircraft in our fleet now or in the future can even do JFK to Europe.
Please use facts and numbers.
The TA binds the JV flying. Not the settlement.
Either way, this is the deal. Attempting to force compliance via numbers has not worked in five years. This gives us realistic goals we can hold the company to, quickly.
Please take notes and ask questions at the road shows.
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