Details on Delta TA
06-13-2015 | 10:32 PM
#8651
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Likes: 0
How much scope was given away at the top and bottom of the operation? I'm aware of many of the AA/Usair concessions for the new payscale but scope seems the be the glaring issue with the delta TA. There will always be certain groups of pilots willing to give certain work rules to get certain pay rates. However scope is something no pilot should ever give away. Have we learned nothing from the last 15 years?
06-14-2015 | 01:54 AM
#8652
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
Likes: 0
Wait, I thought Lumberg was only posting under his brother-in-law's login because the DALPA MEC contracted the Persian mob to kidnap his socially-awkward, lazy-eyed beagle. Lumberg was just trying to protect Mr. Friskers.
06-14-2015 | 02:16 AM
#8653
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 403
Likes: 0
Black Rocket,
Arbitrage? Grab the sheet of talking points passed out by your Dear Leader and re-read it. He wants you to threaten ARBITRATION. Arbitrage is more along the lines of mergers and acquisitions. Which, I guess, it will look like when China Eastern 777s are painted in Delta colors.
If anyone is one wondering what MD has to gain by forcing this through, look no further than the Moak Group. A $1-2M per year job is awaiting him if he can prove himself as a labor-busting future executive. He's well on the way. Kinda changes the way you read his propaganda, huh?
06-14-2015 | 04:08 AM
#8654
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
DAL Compensation calculations:
Assumptions; 1,000 hrs/year @ 12 years pay seniority
===========================================
Current B-777 Captain
$272 x 1,000 = $272,000 + 20% PS = $326,400
New TA 2015 B-777 Captain with 2016 pay rates
$311 x 1,000 = $311,000 + 10% PS = $342,000
That's a 2016 4.8% raise
+ 1.0% 401K contribution is a total aggregate of 5.8%
===========================================
Current B-777 FO
$185 x 1,000 = 185,000 + 20% PS = $222,000
New TA 2015 B-777 FO with 2016 pay rates
$212 x 1,000 = $212,000 + 10% = $233,200
Thats a 2016 5.0% raise
+ 1.0% 401k contribution is a total aggregate of 6.0%
===========================================
Current B-737 Captain
$219 x 1,000 = $219,000 + 20% PS = $262,800
TA 2015 B-737 Captain with 2016 pay rates
$251 x 1,000 = $251,000 + 10% = $276,222
That's a 2016 5.4% raise
+ 1.0% 401k contribution is a total aggregate of 6.4%
===========================================
Current B-737 FO
$149 x 1,000 = $149,000 + 20% PS = $178,800
TA 2015 B-737 FO with 2016 pay rates
$170 x 1,000 = $170,000 + 10% PS = $187,000
That's a 2016 4.5% raise
+ 1.0% 401k contribution is a total aggregate of 5.5%
===========================================
Cliff's Notes
*Between the most senior pay rates from B-777 Captain to a 12 year B-737 FO...the average pay raise is appx. 5.5%
Add in the 2017 & 2018 3% pay increases and you end up having an 11.5% raise.
Consider the options of turning down TA 2015 carefully.
If disapproved, we can end up going to arbitrage and dragging this out for 2-3 years for only a couple percent more. Then we will be ready for a new contract. Also, the arbitrator's directed to meet just industry standards.
Consider all the facts carefuly and vote wisely!
B-R
Assumptions; 1,000 hrs/year @ 12 years pay seniority
===========================================
Current B-777 Captain
$272 x 1,000 = $272,000 + 20% PS = $326,400
New TA 2015 B-777 Captain with 2016 pay rates
$311 x 1,000 = $311,000 + 10% PS = $342,000
That's a 2016 4.8% raise
+ 1.0% 401K contribution is a total aggregate of 5.8%
===========================================
Current B-777 FO
$185 x 1,000 = 185,000 + 20% PS = $222,000
New TA 2015 B-777 FO with 2016 pay rates
$212 x 1,000 = $212,000 + 10% = $233,200
Thats a 2016 5.0% raise
+ 1.0% 401k contribution is a total aggregate of 6.0%
===========================================
Current B-737 Captain
$219 x 1,000 = $219,000 + 20% PS = $262,800
TA 2015 B-737 Captain with 2016 pay rates
$251 x 1,000 = $251,000 + 10% = $276,222
That's a 2016 5.4% raise
+ 1.0% 401k contribution is a total aggregate of 6.4%
===========================================
Current B-737 FO
$149 x 1,000 = $149,000 + 20% PS = $178,800
TA 2015 B-737 FO with 2016 pay rates
$170 x 1,000 = $170,000 + 10% PS = $187,000
That's a 2016 4.5% raise
+ 1.0% 401k contribution is a total aggregate of 5.5%
===========================================
Cliff's Notes
*Between the most senior pay rates from B-777 Captain to a 12 year B-737 FO...the average pay raise is appx. 5.5%
Add in the 2017 & 2018 3% pay increases and you end up having an 11.5% raise.
Consider the options of turning down TA 2015 carefully.
If disapproved, we can end up going to arbitrage and dragging this out for 2-3 years for only a couple percent more. Then we will be ready for a new contract. Also, the arbitrator's directed to meet just industry standards.
Consider all the facts carefuly and vote wisely!
B-R
So can you recalculate that with a 23%-30% deficit off the bat then show me how I will do!!
Thank you in advanced.
06-14-2015 | 04:32 AM
#8655
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Work rule related cuts roughly if they apply to you
loss of 3 greenslips per year at 2 day 20 hours = 7% cut
loss of 6 greeslips per yearat 2 day 20 hours = 14% cut
loss of 9 greenslips per year at 2 day 20 hours = 20% cut
loss of 12 greenslips per year at 2 day 20 hours = 27% cut
Whether it's green slips or white loss of 20 hour per month is huge if the work rules make that happen. Changes LCA bidding, JV, sick changes, etc. So many of the new changes would affect this. How about the FOs who go from line holder and 100 hours a pay a month to reserve pay at 75 hours due to LCA bidding?
Work rules are so much more important than the hourly rate. Which contract going forward will produce more overtime flying?
The true value of the contract will be different for each individual. Figure out what you will lose before you figure what the contract gives. For some it will be gold for many it will appear to be fools gold.
loss of 3 greenslips per year at 2 day 20 hours = 7% cut
loss of 6 greeslips per yearat 2 day 20 hours = 14% cut
loss of 9 greenslips per year at 2 day 20 hours = 20% cut
loss of 12 greenslips per year at 2 day 20 hours = 27% cut
Whether it's green slips or white loss of 20 hour per month is huge if the work rules make that happen. Changes LCA bidding, JV, sick changes, etc. So many of the new changes would affect this. How about the FOs who go from line holder and 100 hours a pay a month to reserve pay at 75 hours due to LCA bidding?
Work rules are so much more important than the hourly rate. Which contract going forward will produce more overtime flying?
The true value of the contract will be different for each individual. Figure out what you will lose before you figure what the contract gives. For some it will be gold for many it will appear to be fools gold.
06-14-2015 | 04:55 AM
#8657
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
From: 757 Left
At the MEC meeting the negotiating committee put up a bunch of slides on our sick leave use and its change over time. I'm working from notes, so I apologize for any errors. Since 2012 sick leave usage is up 30%. The top 20% of sick leave users that don't go on disability use 50% of our sick leave. 5% of our pilots use more than 40 days per year and never go TD or LTD.
They also addressed that demographically our aging pilot group should only use about 1% more, not 30% more. There has been a pilot behavior change. UAL and AMR's sick leave has decreased (no data provided) but both those properties have substantially more punitive sick leave provisions than we do, beginning with only 60 hours of accrual.
They said because of increased costs this is one of management's top priorities.
I hope one of the notepads covers this, as sick leave was just a few slides in a big deck.
They also addressed that demographically our aging pilot group should only use about 1% more, not 30% more. There has been a pilot behavior change. UAL and AMR's sick leave has decreased (no data provided) but both those properties have substantially more punitive sick leave provisions than we do, beginning with only 60 hours of accrual.
They said because of increased costs this is one of management's top priorities.
I hope one of the notepads covers this, as sick leave was just a few slides in a big deck.
Why wasn't the UAL/AMR data provided? It decreased? From what to what? What was the source for this other airline data? Delta management?
Very suspect. So far, I do not believe the data on other airlines. Also makes me doubt data on Delta pilots.
06-14-2015 | 05:09 AM
#8658
Senior by choice
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 433
Likes: 1
DAL Compensation calculations:
Assumptions; 1,000 hrs/year @ 12 years pay seniority
===========================================
Current B-777 Captain
$272 x 1,000 = $272,000 + 20% PS = $326,400
New TA 2015 B-777 Captain with 2016 pay rates
$311 x 1,000 = $311,000 + 10% PS = $342,000
That's a 2016 4.8% raise
+ 1.0% 401K contribution is a total aggregate of 5.8%
===========================================
Current B-777 FO
$185 x 1,000 = 185,000 + 20% PS = $222,000
New TA 2015 B-777 FO with 2016 pay rates
$212 x 1,000 = $212,000 + 10% = $233,200
Thats a 2016 5.0% raise
+ 1.0% 401k contribution is a total aggregate of 6.0%
===========================================
Current B-737 Captain
$219 x 1,000 = $219,000 + 20% PS = $262,800
TA 2015 B-737 Captain with 2016 pay rates
$251 x 1,000 = $251,000 + 10% = $276,222
That's a 2016 5.4% raise
+ 1.0% 401k contribution is a total aggregate of 6.4%
===========================================
Current B-737 FO
$149 x 1,000 = $149,000 + 20% PS = $178,800
TA 2015 B-737 FO with 2016 pay rates
$170 x 1,000 = $170,000 + 10% PS = $187,000
That's a 2016 4.5% raise
+ 1.0% 401k contribution is a total aggregate of 5.5%
===========================================
Cliff's Notes
*Between the most senior pay rates from B-777 Captain to a 12 year B-737 FO...the average pay raise is appx. 5.5%
Add in the 2017 & 2018 3% pay increases and you end up having an 11.5% raise.
Consider the options of turning down TA 2015 carefully.
If disapproved, we can end up going to arbitrage and dragging this out for 2-3 years for only a couple percent more. Then we will be ready for a new contract. Also, the arbitrator's directed to meet just industry standards.
Consider all the facts carefuly and vote wisely!
B-R
Assumptions; 1,000 hrs/year @ 12 years pay seniority
===========================================
Current B-777 Captain
$272 x 1,000 = $272,000 + 20% PS = $326,400
New TA 2015 B-777 Captain with 2016 pay rates
$311 x 1,000 = $311,000 + 10% PS = $342,000
That's a 2016 4.8% raise
+ 1.0% 401K contribution is a total aggregate of 5.8%
===========================================
Current B-777 FO
$185 x 1,000 = 185,000 + 20% PS = $222,000
New TA 2015 B-777 FO with 2016 pay rates
$212 x 1,000 = $212,000 + 10% = $233,200
Thats a 2016 5.0% raise
+ 1.0% 401k contribution is a total aggregate of 6.0%
===========================================
Current B-737 Captain
$219 x 1,000 = $219,000 + 20% PS = $262,800
TA 2015 B-737 Captain with 2016 pay rates
$251 x 1,000 = $251,000 + 10% = $276,222
That's a 2016 5.4% raise
+ 1.0% 401k contribution is a total aggregate of 6.4%
===========================================
Current B-737 FO
$149 x 1,000 = $149,000 + 20% PS = $178,800
TA 2015 B-737 FO with 2016 pay rates
$170 x 1,000 = $170,000 + 10% PS = $187,000
That's a 2016 4.5% raise
+ 1.0% 401k contribution is a total aggregate of 5.5%
===========================================
Cliff's Notes
*Between the most senior pay rates from B-777 Captain to a 12 year B-737 FO...the average pay raise is appx. 5.5%
Add in the 2017 & 2018 3% pay increases and you end up having an 11.5% raise.
Consider the options of turning down TA 2015 carefully.
If disapproved, we can end up going to arbitrage and dragging this out for 2-3 years for only a couple percent more. Then we will be ready for a new contract. Also, the arbitrator's directed to meet just industry standards.
Consider all the facts carefuly and vote wisely!
B-R
have more onerous sick leave requirements
reduce rolling thunder if you are reserve
reduced GS because of more reserve availability
allow reductions to top and bottom end scope
allow the re-introduction of a b-scale
allow alter ego JV airlines to fly Delta code therefore reducing WB flying
WOW, JUST WOW!!!
06-14-2015 | 05:22 AM
#8659
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 6,566
Likes: 314
From: Sitting SC at the Five Towns
06-14-2015 | 05:23 AM
#8660
:-)
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Likes: 1
That's why these TAs usually pass. I think most have no confidence that a better deal could be had, would rather stick with what they currently have, but eventually rationalize voting yes for the pay bump, even with the other modifications.
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