I think that everyone comes into a TA with their entire life's history. It informs their viewpoint on the TA and its validity in the scope of their airline experience.

The question everyone has to ask, I think, is this: are the pay increases worth the concessions? And only you can answer that.

IF this TA passes in 2018 Delta pilot pay will have increased 82% in a decade. So while the past may inform everyone's decision it is important to keep in mind the reality of our contract improvements (and give backs) of the last decade are NOT normal to the history of the industry.

My original question was how any judge will simply "take" anything from us outside of bankruptcy. Your 'response' was that this pilot group will simply give up anything the company wants. OK. Fine. You have made up your mind and don't even care to discuss the issue at hand but rather choose to deflect it to another completely different argument.

Have a nice day.

QUestion 1: Does anybody know how much time we had after C2K? After C12? How do those voting timelines compare to this one?

Question 2: Why aren't they doing a roadshow in MCO like they did last time? 2 in PTC, but none where arguably as many if not more pilots live geographically?

The way it was just done was a text book example of how one allows themselves to get negotiated into a corner and checkmated.

The party that controls the PACE controls the negotiation and the outcome. It's very easy and quite elementary.

DELTA: we need a quick agreement, let's open early! Fast fast

US: ok, let's go.

DELTA: we need drastic changes to SL verification, access to medical records conducted by a third party, and we require the ability to look back.

US: no way what we have now is adequate. How about a bank instead? We need to study this.

DELTA: no way, this is non negotiable. Come on faster, faster.

US: ok then, but bring your check book when we talk money.

DELTA: we want virtual bases. Again non negotiable, we must have it. Quickly now.

US: no way, it abrogates seniority. Not happening

DELLTA: we are trying to do this fast. Come on now. We need it. We have a manning problem. We will bring the check book.

US: ok, let us talk to the reps and the MEC. Pause-pause-pause- talk-confer. So you are going bring the check book cause this is going to cost you, right?

DELTA: of course we are going to bring it, next up is scope. More big RJs and we need you to relax the JV scope and language.

US: what, wait, this is a lot of stuff real fast here. Slow down, scope give backs now! In this environ...

DELTA: we NEED THIS. We are bring the check book. Come on hurry up and get with the program.

US: ok.

DELTA: ok, here is the money, we will write you a check.

First, the e ground rules...... Changing PS trigger, 2.5 to 6 B and we are going to change the how it is calculated by subtracting stock options and the salary of executives from the current PTIX definition to come up with a new lower PTIX. So we are going to pay ourselves first and increase our pay once we sign this, you know, a bonus for a job well done.

You are going to pay for your pay increase from PS. When it's all said and done, 8/0/3/3, that's it. 1 % DC but not for nearly two years from now. And five pennies per hour-snicker-snicker-is all we could possibly afford for a per diem increase, that's it.

US: no way, you said you are going to bring the check book , this is not enough. This is not nearly enough for all the gives we just TA'd for you. We engaged you proactively! Come on now, this is not how it works.

DELTA: we brought the check book, see it? However, this is all we are writing the check for. Take it or leave it. Leave it we go to traditional section 6 negotiations and we are done for now. OBTW, we won't get those mD88 replacements and that other jet that will make us a 10 fleet airline, with more training head aches, that we plan on paying a B scale wage for if you don't do this NOW.


Yep Bender T, this way you prefer is excellent.

Once this is rejected and we have to get new negotiators, how do you suppose we should approach the process the second time?

Here is an example of our union sales job. This is from the 6/16 Negotiators Notepad.

Get the facts, educate yourself, and oh by the way….vote yes. I have emailed my rep urging him to put a stop to the sales job.

The highlighting at the bottom is by APLA…not me.

http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/...psk16qxz8a.jpg

Yawwwwwwwwwwn More boring hyperbole. You weren't there, so your entire little story is your interpretation which is not at all surprising. You have no argument, so you resort to complete character assassination. Well done.

I asked the same thing a while back (Q1)…if there was an answer, I missed it.

OK, so we go to mediation...doesn't mean we have a deal, negotiations continue and while we're there we continue to collect 3% pay raises to match United and American until 2018(where did that .55% we just got come from?)and we get to keep our current(superior) contract benefits.

The NMB can't park us sure. But they have presidential ellections all 2016, and a year delegated to transition afterwords. So yeah, legally they will be "working" on our mediation, but honestly do you think a single thing will get done?

I talked to the duty officer yesterday and he said the timelines were similar, but I don't KNOW what they were. I would like it if someone had some hard evidence one way or the other like a notepad from back then. I know that there are guys that have all that archived.