Originally Posted by Trip7

A small increase in 76 seaters when DCI overall is shrinking and SNB aircraft at mainline rapidly increasing is another.

Originally Posted by Army80

I disagree.

All the other parties (company/Wall Street/Share holders) care about is how much it costs to move the metal, and how that cost compares to other airlines. Paying a 42 year longevity captain significantly more than a 20 year longevity captain (from a competitive carrier) is just bad business. It also hurts anyone with less than 42 years of service.

The best thing for the pilot group is to have a ONE year pay scale. Get all the jack now. The co-pilots make a % of captain pay. They max out on day one. Most captains are at the top end already, so it doesn't change their situation.

IMO, what needs to change is the fixation on the big metal pay. We don't have very much big metal. Like it or not, we fly for a very profitable company that has a bunch of jets; they just don't have a bunch of really big jets. We can wish we had more big jets, and push harder on the JV/code agreements, but most guys will spend the bulk of their time at Delta on smaller equipment. It wasn't all that long ago when many forum followers looked at SW with envy...

Originally Posted by Gunfighter

This is exactly the time and conditions we are looking for to recapture SNB scope. Outsourcing at the bottom end has proven to be an unreliable, costly mistake. We can recapture this scope for little to no negotiating capital while it is worthless. If history holds true, we will hire until the furloughs begin. How much value will SNB scope hold then? Let's secure it now, while it is not worth much, just like PS a decade ago.

Originally Posted by JamesBond

Well your assertion that most captains are at the top end is rapidly being invalidated. We already have a 14 month CA, and there are many many many more to follow very soon. You are basically hitting at the same thing I am in that it is essentially a base pay rate (on day 1) and a percentage increase for each year of longevity thereafter. With each contract, the base rate would be renegotiated. I actually think you and I are on the same page.

Originally Posted by notEnuf

That's an exception and not the rule because of the undesirability of NYC. I did some checking. The junior line holding captain on the 717 in NYC is an '07 hire. That puts him on 10 year pay. The fact is to have any kind of control over your schedule at Delta as a captain you need a minimum of 10 years. Many bases are much more. The captain ranks will get more junior, but for the average non-NYC commuter, you'll make captain at 12ish years of service. By the time the retirements really kick in it could work its way down to 9ish but the norm will never be much below that. The increased pay from a new contract will push it back up again.

Originally Posted by scambo1

In 3 years, I think most bases will have 4 year capts.

Originally Posted by notEnuf

That might be true but they will be junior on reserve and no or little control over their schedule.

Originally Posted by notEnuf

That might be true but they will be junior on reserve and no or little control over their schedule.

Originally Posted by scambo1

No doubt about that.

Originally Posted by JamesBond

So what? They will still be captains.