ICED
07-22-2016, 10:24 AM
#121
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: 73NA
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by Herkflyr
If I had a dollar for every post which claimed that "this agreement will define our careers for decades to come" I would have a whole lot of dollars. And yet it wouldn't be true.
Also, UPS pilots got a great TA--no disagreement. But it is also four years after the amendable date, without a full retro--that would be nearly impossible after being four years delayed. If I were a UPS pilot, I would certainly vote "Yes"...and yet, if the exact same value were part of a TA ON the amendable date (vs four years late) it would not be some spectacular "hey look at this!" TA. It would have been a modest, gain upon gain over four years type of agreement. It would probably have generated a lot of heated "I'm voting NO!" posts.
Also, UPS pilots got a great TA--no disagreement. But it is also four years after the amendable date, without a full retro--that would be nearly impossible after being four years delayed. If I were a UPS pilot, I would certainly vote "Yes"...and yet, if the exact same value were part of a TA ON the amendable date (vs four years late) it would not be some spectacular "hey look at this!" TA. It would have been a modest, gain upon gain over four years type of agreement. It would probably have generated a lot of heated "I'm voting NO!" posts.
It is a matter of record that a ****-poor contract full of concessions and pay cuts has affected all of us for more than a decade. So why the skepticism when some contend that a good contract will have positive repercussions for decades? If we fold now, the precedent set with keep us down for years to come. The TVM angle of accepting an early settlement is a dead argument.
Remember when C2012 passed? Remember "We'll get em next time"? Well, it's next time, and not a time for concessions.
07-22-2016, 10:41 AM
#122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,116
Please read your thoughts, and try and appreciate the entirely complete conditioning of thought you have undergone.
This is akin to the fine but important distinction between vacation 'selling' by a pilot.....and vacation BUYING by management..
So, the cp says its some senior 'dudes' coming up with 'excuses' to block in late? Those senior dudes..... man, they deserve the bullet.
And after all.....why preserve any part of the contract that does not impact me individually, right now?
You know, most senior 'dudes' don't need maternity coverage in the medical plan..... so how about we get rid of that hugely expensive bennie those junior 'dudes' come up with 'excuses' to use?
I suppose the cp failed to mention some junior 'dude'. On reserve... who gets stuck with a suckazz trip that blocks in at 2330 the day prior to vacation..... and then through no fault his own..... gets delayed, say, waiting 2hrs for a gate in lax?
Doesn't this present the same cost 'burden' to management as that greedy senior 'dudes' sinister plan?
In one case its some 'greedy pilot' that is the source of our benevolent managements difficulty....... in the other case, well, we really can't fault our management..... after all.... they are already too poorly rewarded for the impossible task of dealing with 'greedy senior dudes'...
This is akin to the fine but important distinction between vacation 'selling' by a pilot.....and vacation BUYING by management..
So, the cp says its some senior 'dudes' coming up with 'excuses' to block in late? Those senior dudes..... man, they deserve the bullet.
And after all.....why preserve any part of the contract that does not impact me individually, right now?
You know, most senior 'dudes' don't need maternity coverage in the medical plan..... so how about we get rid of that hugely expensive bennie those junior 'dudes' come up with 'excuses' to use?
I suppose the cp failed to mention some junior 'dude'. On reserve... who gets stuck with a suckazz trip that blocks in at 2330 the day prior to vacation..... and then through no fault his own..... gets delayed, say, waiting 2hrs for a gate in lax?
Doesn't this present the same cost 'burden' to management as that greedy senior 'dudes' sinister plan?
In one case its some 'greedy pilot' that is the source of our benevolent managements difficulty....... in the other case, well, we really can't fault our management..... after all.... they are already too poorly rewarded for the impossible task of dealing with 'greedy senior dudes'...
Last edited by BobZ; 07-22-2016 at 11:15 AM.
07-22-2016, 10:49 AM
#123
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,116
P.S.......did the cp happen to mention if not for those greedy senior dudes surrendering their retirement, along with weeks of vacation that have not been restored, and taking near 50% pay cuts....... there wouldn't even be a delta airlines?
At least that's what I heard from one of those put upon management types once upon a time....
At least that's what I heard from one of those put upon management types once upon a time....
07-22-2016, 11:26 AM
#124
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Originally Posted by Herkflyr
If I had a dollar for every post which claimed that "this agreement will define our careers for decades to come" I would have a whole lot of dollars. And yet it wouldn't be true.
I'm not going to sell the best years of my life for a few bucks so Delta can beat the **** out of me. All so management can cash in on my crap QOL.
And I'm not alone.
Last edited by Purple Drank; 07-22-2016 at 11:39 AM.
07-22-2016, 12:20 PM
#125
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Starboard Side, weekends & holidays.
Posts: 845
Originally Posted by KnotSoFast
.
I saw that odd vacation rule and wondered why? Well, I asked my CP and guess what?
There have been senior dudes, who PBS bid a trip that blocks in after 23:00 on the night before vacation starts. They also bid a HUGE trip that begins on the day after their vacation ends. Then it's a simple matter of coming up with an excuse that gets their flight late to their base > 23:31. BINGO, huge trip gets dropped and paid and vacation magically inflates.
Don't get me wrong... I'm all for max-performing the PWA to my advantage. But this new vacation rule is strictly a knee-jerk reaction to a few "max-performers", who were pulling a fast one on the company and now we ALL have to live with it. Or not. Vote no if this chaps your a$$, but once I understood the background, I don't really care about this one. I'm not senior enough to be able to bid that precisely anyway.
.
BTW, I am DEFINITELY a NO vote! That Negotiators Notepad was printed using Trebuchet typeface.
.
I HATE Trebuchet typeface, so chalk me up as a strong NO vote.
.
I saw that odd vacation rule and wondered why? Well, I asked my CP and guess what?
There have been senior dudes, who PBS bid a trip that blocks in after 23:00 on the night before vacation starts. They also bid a HUGE trip that begins on the day after their vacation ends. Then it's a simple matter of coming up with an excuse that gets their flight late to their base > 23:31. BINGO, huge trip gets dropped and paid and vacation magically inflates.
Don't get me wrong... I'm all for max-performing the PWA to my advantage. But this new vacation rule is strictly a knee-jerk reaction to a few "max-performers", who were pulling a fast one on the company and now we ALL have to live with it. Or not. Vote no if this chaps your a$$, but once I understood the background, I don't really care about this one. I'm not senior enough to be able to bid that precisely anyway.
.
BTW, I am DEFINITELY a NO vote! That Negotiators Notepad was printed using Trebuchet typeface.
.
I HATE Trebuchet typeface, so chalk me up as a strong NO vote.
.
07-22-2016, 12:32 PM
#127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: I got into this business so I wouldn't have to work.
Posts: 1,034
Originally Posted by KnotSoFast
.
I saw that odd vacation rule and wondered why? Well, I asked my CP and guess what?
There have been senior dudes, who PBS bid a trip that blocks in after 23:00 on the night before vacation starts. They also bid a HUGE trip that begins on the day after their vacation ends. Then it's a simple matter of coming up with an excuse that gets their flight late to their base > 23:31. BINGO, huge trip gets dropped and paid and vacation magically inflates.
Don't get me wrong... I'm all for max-performing the PWA to my advantage. But this new vacation rule is strictly a knee-jerk reaction to a few "max-performers", who were pulling a fast one on the company and now we ALL have to live with it. Or not. Vote no if this chaps your a$$, but once I understood the background, I don't really care about this one. I'm not senior enough to be able to bid that precisely anyway.
.
BTW, I am DEFINITELY a NO vote! That Negotiators Notepad was printed using Trebuchet typeface.
.
I HATE Trebuchet typeface, so chalk me up as a strong NO vote.
.
I saw that odd vacation rule and wondered why? Well, I asked my CP and guess what?
There have been senior dudes, who PBS bid a trip that blocks in after 23:00 on the night before vacation starts. They also bid a HUGE trip that begins on the day after their vacation ends. Then it's a simple matter of coming up with an excuse that gets their flight late to their base > 23:31. BINGO, huge trip gets dropped and paid and vacation magically inflates.
Don't get me wrong... I'm all for max-performing the PWA to my advantage. But this new vacation rule is strictly a knee-jerk reaction to a few "max-performers", who were pulling a fast one on the company and now we ALL have to live with it. Or not. Vote no if this chaps your a$$, but once I understood the background, I don't really care about this one. I'm not senior enough to be able to bid that precisely anyway.
.
BTW, I am DEFINITELY a NO vote! That Negotiators Notepad was printed using Trebuchet typeface.
.
I HATE Trebuchet typeface, so chalk me up as a strong NO vote.
.
I want QOL. I want my bretheren to have QOL. I played this stupid game for 16 years, off and on. I will never sell someone's future for my present. I bet you will.
There is no I in Team, but apparently, there's a huge ME there that you've found.
P.S. Your sarcasm needs work.
07-22-2016, 01:02 PM
#129
Sick of whiners
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: 767 VEOP
Posts: 507
Originally Posted by Vincent Chase
Who are you shilling for? I've read your posts. I've tried to understand your point of view. It now just looks like you're a management troll.
I want QOL. I want my bretheren to have QOL. I played this stupid game for 16 years, off and on. I will never sell someone's future for my present. I bet you will.
There is no I in Team, but apparently, there's a huge ME there that you've found.
P.S. Your sarcasm needs work.
I want QOL. I want my bretheren to have QOL. I played this stupid game for 16 years, off and on. I will never sell someone's future for my present. I bet you will.
There is no I in Team, but apparently, there's a huge ME there that you've found.
P.S. Your sarcasm needs work.
Well I have been playing this game for 26 yrs and if there's one thing I have learned, it is that the company crafts language to allow future loopholes that they will try to slip thru in future years. And when we find loopholes, the very next contract fills those holes. Example-
When I got hired, they did vacations manually. I had small kids and wanted Xmas off, but was nowhere near senior enough to bid that week. A wise 727 Capt told me the answer was to bid the week BEFORE Xmas off then add 7 bought vacation days. Voila, Xmas week off, because they were too stupid to notice that there were no more Xmas weeks available when they add bank vacation days.
Well, lo and behold, this worked for 3+ years for me, when many senior to me did NOT get Xmas off. Until a new contract expressly PROHIBITED using bought vacation days between 01 Dec and 10 Jan. Loophole closed.
So I believe the story I was told by the CP was true. I will never know, because at my category seniority level, I cannot sharpshoot PBS to test out that theory.
.
07-22-2016, 01:10 PM
#130
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,116
Knot..... in comparative levels of economic damage to the airline...... where do suppose the few senior dude PBS sharpshooting vacationers...... stack up against the fuel hedging debacle this mgmt. team has inflicted on the bottom line?
Like i said.....I would have had real difficulty maintaining a straight face.
Like i said.....I would have had real difficulty maintaining a straight face.
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