ICED
07-22-2016, 12:05 AM
#91
On Reserve
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 15
definately a no-go for me
That self verification for sick being eliminated is an absolute no go for me. I don't think everyone understands the impact that this has.
For a basic example - Lets say a pilot uses 120 sick hours in a year. If distributed evenly, that would be 10 hrs a month. Using the lookback he would always maintain above 100 sick hours used, therefore he would have to verify everything! He'd never have access to unverified time. Essentially this policy reduces our effective unverified time.
With the policy we have now, I always got a note if I went to the Dr. I saved unverified time as to use for things that are a waste of time to make an appointment or impossible/difficult to diagnose. I verify close to 95% of my time already, I just don't want to take it in the shorts for that 5%.
Even with the more stringent verification, we need language that has the company pay for and Dr visits for the purpose of verification. Why should that come out of my pocket?
I realize that someone calling in sick 10 hours evenly distributed throughout the year is unlikely, but think of scenarios where 1 trip can severely impact a pilot. What if a pilot bids 5 day trips? What about 12 day trips? You can start to see how it's easy to get to the 100 hrs, then suffer the consequences for a year afterwards.
We work more, we have higher ALVs, and we are an aging pilot group. That's plenty of reason to want to protect sick leave.
For a basic example - Lets say a pilot uses 120 sick hours in a year. If distributed evenly, that would be 10 hrs a month. Using the lookback he would always maintain above 100 sick hours used, therefore he would have to verify everything! He'd never have access to unverified time. Essentially this policy reduces our effective unverified time.
With the policy we have now, I always got a note if I went to the Dr. I saved unverified time as to use for things that are a waste of time to make an appointment or impossible/difficult to diagnose. I verify close to 95% of my time already, I just don't want to take it in the shorts for that 5%.
Even with the more stringent verification, we need language that has the company pay for and Dr visits for the purpose of verification. Why should that come out of my pocket?
I realize that someone calling in sick 10 hours evenly distributed throughout the year is unlikely, but think of scenarios where 1 trip can severely impact a pilot. What if a pilot bids 5 day trips? What about 12 day trips? You can start to see how it's easy to get to the 100 hrs, then suffer the consequences for a year afterwards.
We work more, we have higher ALVs, and we are an aging pilot group. That's plenty of reason to want to protect sick leave.
07-22-2016, 01:26 AM
#92
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,868
Underwhelming for sure but it appears to be a lot better than TA-1.
I will wait for the full details before I commit to a yes or no.
Guys are spooled about the VB provision- does it contain a provision that it can be unilaterally terminated by either side? Could make a big difference.
The 1 hour credit for SC seems like this deals version of the 5 cent per diem raise. 1 hour credit for a SC - wow I guest I will start bidding reserve ASAP!
I will keep my pitchfork sharpened and my torches fueled, but I want to see the whole enchilada before we storm the castle - so to speak.
This is 1% of the value - some good - some lame - some laughable (SC change) I eagerly await confirmation of:
No changes to PS.
Substantial vacation gains.
Substantial gains in pay.
Lacking these I will be hard pressed to vote in the affirmative.
As Clamp stated they removed some of the more onerous provisions from the last TA, but that potential deal was so lacking that it is a dubious at best qualifier.
Scoop
I will wait for the full details before I commit to a yes or no.
Guys are spooled about the VB provision- does it contain a provision that it can be unilaterally terminated by either side? Could make a big difference.
The 1 hour credit for SC seems like this deals version of the 5 cent per diem raise. 1 hour credit for a SC - wow I guest I will start bidding reserve ASAP!
I will keep my pitchfork sharpened and my torches fueled, but I want to see the whole enchilada before we storm the castle - so to speak.
This is 1% of the value - some good - some lame - some laughable (SC change) I eagerly await confirmation of:
No changes to PS.
Substantial vacation gains.
Substantial gains in pay.
Lacking these I will be hard pressed to vote in the affirmative.
As Clamp stated they removed some of the more onerous provisions from the last TA, but that potential deal was so lacking that it is a dubious at best qualifier.
Scoop
07-22-2016, 01:42 AM
#93
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by TenYearsGone
Im at point in my life that I am done "giving". My services are worth more than what our beloved management thinks. The markets agree with me.
I am ready to do whatever it takes. Its an embarrassment to call yourself a world class airline when you operate the oldest equipment, while subsidizing foreign airlines. Airlines that are operating brand new, top of the line jets. Old Delta 767s jets sitting at the gate, next to brand spanking new 787s operated by Skyteam members, being funded by Delta.
This has to be the biggest scam in history, next to the maritime industry. Our executives are making well north of 50million a year. Something doesnt smell right. I am worried that our focus on ME3 and NAI is mis-directed. We should be more concerned with our company trying to eliminate us.
I say, let it take as long as it takes. Im done HOAR-frost-ING IT OUT.
TEN
I am ready to do whatever it takes. Its an embarrassment to call yourself a world class airline when you operate the oldest equipment, while subsidizing foreign airlines. Airlines that are operating brand new, top of the line jets. Old Delta 767s jets sitting at the gate, next to brand spanking new 787s operated by Skyteam members, being funded by Delta.
This has to be the biggest scam in history, next to the maritime industry. Our executives are making well north of 50million a year. Something doesnt smell right. I am worried that our focus on ME3 and NAI is mis-directed. We should be more concerned with our company trying to eliminate us.
I say, let it take as long as it takes. Im done HOAR-frost-ING IT OUT.
TEN
Im also right there with Drank. But, thats a double edged sword. We are disecting the NN early which both softens the battlefield and honors the "we'll release sections as theyre closed out" promise. There is good and bad to this approach.
If voting was based on the NN, its a no. I dont know what the future big ticket stuff will look like. But right now, we are not winning.
UPS +1 in all areas. Retirement, 757=$300, scope reeled in with teeth, fedex vacation, training, min day, untouched profit sharing. These things dont happen then its an easy NO and the card goes in with a donation.
07-22-2016, 02:40 AM
#94
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
Originally Posted by Clearedtopush
Due to revisits on agreed upon sections of the contract and a proposal to up our ask from our prior table position the NMB has sided with the company and is placing our mediation in a holding status. They will devote the assets being used to other pending contracts. JM asked for and received permission to continue talks on several sections near completion prior to a complete shutdown of talks. This is anticipated to be a long term suspension. The MEC has remained in special session because of this development however as of now has no plan going forward.
07-22-2016, 02:52 AM
#95
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,412
Not horrendous like TA 1, but some pretty big gives in there. Might be a good time to be in the training/LCA/LPV department. Good increases there.
Overall with the gives it has to be leveraged for significant gains for this to have a chance of passing. 15.5/3/3 surely won't do it
Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
Overall with the gives it has to be leveraged for significant gains for this to have a chance of passing. 15.5/3/3 surely won't do it
Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
07-22-2016, 03:14 AM
#96
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by Viking busdvr
The pilots that want to see the virtual base are probably the ones that are too junior in catagory to hold the trips that start and/or end with a dead head. They would rather screw those pilots senior to them in order to be able to drive to work themselves....
Virtual basing is just a bad idea and a huge concession, but to think that it was provided by junior pilots to screw senior pilots is just plain screwy.
No to VB.
I'd rather see Split Duty Periods. These 30 hour layovers are wasted days spent away from home.
FAR117 provides for SDPs. Why are we not using them?
07-22-2016, 03:38 AM
#97
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Originally Posted by Clearedtopush
Due to revisits on agreed upon sections of the contract and a proposal to up our ask from our prior table position the NMB has sided with the company.
07-22-2016, 03:40 AM
#98
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Originally Posted by LeaningForward
FAR117 provides for SDPs. Why are we not using them?
07-22-2016, 03:44 AM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Originally Posted by TenYearsGone
Im at point in my life that I am done "giving". My services are worth more than what our beloved management thinks. The markets agree with me.
I am ready to do whatever it takes. Its an embarrassment to call yourself a world class airline when you operate the oldest equipment, while subsidizing foreign airlines. Airlines that are operating brand new, top of the line jets. Old Delta 767s jets sitting at the gate, next to brand spanking new 787s operated by Skyteam members, being funded by Delta.
This has to be the biggest scam in history, next to the maritime industry. Our executives are making well north of 50million a year. Something doesnt smell right. I am worried that our focus on ME3 and NAI is mis-directed. We should be more concerned with our company trying to eliminate us.
I say, let it take as long as it takes. Im done HOAR-frost-ING IT OUT.
TEN
I am ready to do whatever it takes. Its an embarrassment to call yourself a world class airline when you operate the oldest equipment, while subsidizing foreign airlines. Airlines that are operating brand new, top of the line jets. Old Delta 767s jets sitting at the gate, next to brand spanking new 787s operated by Skyteam members, being funded by Delta.
This has to be the biggest scam in history, next to the maritime industry. Our executives are making well north of 50million a year. Something doesnt smell right. I am worried that our focus on ME3 and NAI is mis-directed. We should be more concerned with our company trying to eliminate us.
I say, let it take as long as it takes. Im done HOAR-frost-ING IT OUT.
TEN
Why are making concessions?
We are stuck in the "Twilight Zone"
07-22-2016, 03:49 AM
#100
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Originally Posted by Scoop
Underwhelming for sure but it appears to be a lot better than TA-1.
I will wait for the full details before I commit to a yes or no.
Guys are spooled about the VB provision- does it contain a provision that it can be unilaterally terminated by either side? Could make a big difference.
The 1 hour credit for SC seems like this deals version of the 5 cent per diem raise. 1 hour credit for a SC - wow I guest I will start bidding reserve ASAP!
I will keep my pitchfork sharpened and my torches fueled, but I want to see the whole enchilada before we storm the castle - so to speak.
This is 1% of the value - some good - some lame - some laughable (SC change) I eagerly await confirmation of:
No changes to PS.
Substantial vacation gains.
Substantial gains in pay.
Lacking these I will be hard pressed to vote in the affirmative.
As Clamp stated they removed some of the more onerous provisions from the last TA, but that potential deal was so lacking that it is a dubious at best qualifier.
Scoop
I will wait for the full details before I commit to a yes or no.
Guys are spooled about the VB provision- does it contain a provision that it can be unilaterally terminated by either side? Could make a big difference.
The 1 hour credit for SC seems like this deals version of the 5 cent per diem raise. 1 hour credit for a SC - wow I guest I will start bidding reserve ASAP!
I will keep my pitchfork sharpened and my torches fueled, but I want to see the whole enchilada before we storm the castle - so to speak.
This is 1% of the value - some good - some lame - some laughable (SC change) I eagerly await confirmation of:
No changes to PS.
Substantial vacation gains.
Substantial gains in pay.
Lacking these I will be hard pressed to vote in the affirmative.
As Clamp stated they removed some of the more onerous provisions from the last TA, but that potential deal was so lacking that it is a dubious at best qualifier.
Scoop
This is beyond unacceptable. We didn't ask for enough. Settling for less than our counterproposal position is a complete failure.
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