Rayjay

This is true as well. DALPA and DL management do not care to find their pilots temp jobs.

theUpsideDown

You really arent qualified to speak on what DALPA and DL management want.

As long as the pilots anti flowdown are antiflow up im fine with all this. Just remember, when i voice my hope for a flow for edv guys I now have to explain this nonsense to my coworkers.
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i came to Mesaba with a flow up and flow down, I think a flow is a great thing. If you only want a flow up, and this isnt a team thing for delta pilots and edv pilots, then take those lanyards off and put your hat off. I dont want to wave at a guy with a lanyard or waste my time talking to him they arent a team guy.

Rayjay

Are you in favor of a flow down that displaces EDV pilots? If so, explain to me how that’s fair. I’m a team player but a EDV-DL flow up would be to the bottom of a list with no longevity carryover. A DL-EDV flow down should match whatever flow up deal we’d be given.

msprj2

How about 9e pilots choose if they want to flow up or not. Those who vote yes get one flow down pilot placed ahead of them on list. The top 50-100 would probably remain unchanged. Flow down (350) would be in top 1000ish. Probably

Rayjay

That would still affect my seniority. If I didn’t take the flow but the person ahead of me did, that DL pilot would bump me down. Only fair option is if you want to flow, that DL pilot takes your spot and you get furloughed.

boxthrower

The flow down can work with an example of 350 flow downs and 35 added aircraft. For every other person at the top of the seniority list you place a flow down. That way your top captains aren’t displaced and your relative spot on the seniority list per aircraft is the same. It would help Endeavor in the long run along with the mainline guys. You where those lanyards wanting a flow and to be Delta but if you give those pilots the finger it’ll never happen.

Rayjay

I want nothing more than to help a furloughed DL pilot out. Honestly. With that being said, the system has to be fair. 350 flow downs for 35 added aircraft would be fair. But this assumes we do not have a fleet reduction/furlough plan at 9E. If there is any overall fleet reduction at 9E, any flow down should be off the table.

Kforekyle

What if Delta takes all the sub-contracted flying and brings it in house. Have a flow up/flow down with a date of hire and try and keep the Endeavor/ Delta furloughs down to a minimum.

Mesabah

Let's not become Comair, where it becomes us vs them. This is a complicated issue, that the Delta MEC will have to deal with their own management about. We don't need to create division over nothing. If Delta decides to send us packing, they still have to pay us under the Bridge Agreement.

EDVPLT

I honestly don't even think this flow down is something DALPA or management is even looking at right now, the current hot topic for DALPA is a good ERP program to get pilots out the door now. Ed has mentioned many times they plan to emerge a smaller carrier and will continue to be smaller in the years to come, having 35 less large RJs would work with a plan to continue to be a smaller airline.

A note on furloughs. Our crew resource manager says the current projection is to have 11,500-12,000 active pilots for summer 2022 which would mean a seniority list of around 13,000 pilots. Given the current retirements if Delta did nothing by the end of 2022 the seniority list will be lower than 12,800 with mandatory retirements alone. I personally don't believe furloughs are gonna go nearly as deep as people believe since usually they see about 25% more retire than the minimum mandatory and with a early out package. I am not saying there won't be any furloughs but I also don't think it will be more than 500 and if more than that not anymore than 1,000. This may or may not make sense to furlough because you would need to start bringing these people back in late 2021 at the absolute latest to meet the summer 2022 projection.

October is a long time away and so far Delta's recovery outlook has been a more worse case situation than what seems to be actually happening. Only time will tell on this though and we will find out the true plan over the next couple months.