Originally Posted by tmckeon79

Can someone tell me exactly how long training is? From the first day of indoc till you are on the line flying passengers? I'm seperating from the military and trying to figure out when to have the movers show up. Thanks.

Originally Posted by VoiceOfReason

I believe dream jobs like flying mainline should be earned, not given. I salute 9E and the guys and gals working hard to make it happen there. That airline has turned things around and is being rewarded by its mainline partner. The payoff will be much sweeter for us all if we had to work a little harder to justify our place in this world.

Speaking of which, could you imagine a flow in any other industry? Doctors flowing up from podiatry to neurosurgery? Teachers flowing from kindergarten to college? Stay focused, work hard, and advance your career like any other industry.

Originally Posted by VoiceOfReason

I believe dream jobs like flying mainline should be earned, not given. I salute 9E and the guys and gals working hard to make it happen there. That airline has turned things around and is being rewarded by its mainline partner. The payoff will be much sweeter for us all if we had to work a little harder to justify our place in this world.

Speaking of which, could you imagine a flow in any other industry? Doctors flowing up from podiatry to neurosurgery? Teachers flowing from kindergarten to college? Stay focused, work hard, and advance your career like any other industry.

Originally Posted by SErickson

This argument may hold water IF the other examples were regarding someone moving to the same job at a different company. A job as a podiatrist is not the same as a job as a neurosurgeon. A kindergarten teaching position is not the same as a college professor. The training, education and experience required for each of these positions is not equivalent.

What makes a pilot flow work is that the job on each of the equation is literally identical and the skills required to be successful in the interview process at either of them are gained prior to obtaining either job.

Originally Posted by SErickson

This argument may hold water IF the other examples were regarding someone moving to the same job at a different company. A job as a podiatrist is not the same as a job as a neurosurgeon. A kindergarten teaching position is not the same as a college professor. The training, education and experience required for each of these positions is not equivalent.

What makes a pilot flow work is that the job on each of the equation is literally identical and the skills required to be successful in the interview process at either of them are gained prior to obtaining either job.

Originally Posted by ShyGuy

The difference is the regional's hiring standards and basically take anyone with a pulse (at least in the last decade post 9/11) meant fog a mirror and you were in. Besides, most regional trips were no more than 4 day trips. Compare that to legacy widebody trips and being stuck with a d-bag for 12 days of a stretch. It seems Delta wised up and stopped the flow. You are correct about identical skills required in a regional vs a major job. But the hiring standards aren't the same and nor is the interview process. When the regionals are desperate, they sure will overlook a LOT of things. You know there were quite a few oddballs at 9E that would be a pain to fly with, but with a flow, there's no way to vet them out. An interview process at least gives a chance to weed some of the bad ones out.

Originally Posted by 404yxl

How is ~300 Endeavor pilots who have already passed the SSP, waiting to go to Delta in 2016-17 any different in terms of status than ~300 Compass pilots who went to Delta in 2014-15?

I don't see a difference in their status other than some parts of their metering agreement and % of the total pilot group. They both go when their number is called. As for the Compass pilots waiting in the pool, I really don't see them any different than the status of the Compass flows other than they aren't ahead of other new hires. The reason why it doesn't really matter anymore at Compass is that there aren't that many waiting on Delta class dates than there use to be. The reason for Endeavor being a better choice than Compass now is the shear % of the pilot group that already has a spot waiting for them at Delta.

Again, we're arguing semantics here about those who have passed the SSP and if they are really any different in status than the Compass flows were. I am stating that the only thing that matters to new hires is career progression and Endeavor offers a similar one than Compass once did.



The SSP agreement states the Endeavor pilots have to comprise a % of the new hire class. That guarantees them spots. When the Compass flow was in affect, they could see reduced numbers due to it, but now it should increase to ~180 in 2016 and 200+ in 2017. Significant attrition, similar to what Compass was seeing. Compass pilots also didn't have a seniority number at Delta until their class date. They got held back and kept their hire date, but that is the only difference in how the Compass and Endeavor pilots are treated in their respective agreements. The Endeavor pilots have to be released by the end of the year, so they will be gone regardless.


Sure, I was telling new hires to look at Compass over Endeavor in 2013-2014, and now I think Endeavor is the better bet in 2016 onward. I think Envoy is close to being another good bet over Compass now. If Compass or other regionals get a real flow/SSP agreement with mainline partners I will state the pros then. However, as it stands now, Endeavor and Envoy will have the most attrition when compared to he other regionals. Throw PDT in there as well, since I think their flow also allows a good % of the total pilot group to flow to AA as well.

Originally Posted by gojo

FFS 80. Why are you so hung up on the word "flow"? Two worthless pages of dribble because you spaz out at the mention of the name Endeavor. Questions regarding pilot progression can and should be asked at the interview And quite frankly, anyone that doesn't understand the difference should probably choose a different profession

Originally Posted by VoiceOfReason

I believe dream jobs like flying mainline should be earned, not given. I salute 9E and the guys and gals working hard to make it happen there. That airline has turned things around and is being rewarded by its mainline partner. The payoff will be much sweeter for us all if we had to work a little harder to justify our place in this world.

Speaking of which, could you imagine a flow in any other industry? Doctors flowing up from podiatry to neurosurgery? Teachers flowing from kindergarten to college? Stay focused, work hard, and advance your career like any other industry.