Can't say about ground school, but the sim portion for upgrade is much shorter. New hires get 5 GFS events and 11 sim events under both AQP and the old way (old way 9 sims plus checkride and loft) aqp is 8 training sims plus an MV and an LOE plus loft. Upgrade only does 2 GFS and 4 sims plus checkride/loft.

 

wheres the like button ffs

 

I believe dream jobs like flying mainline should be earned, not given. I salute 9E and the guys and gals working hard to make it happen there. That airline has turned things around and is being rewarded by its mainline partner. The payoff will be much sweeter for us all if we had to work a little harder to justify our place in this world.

Speaking of which, could you imagine a flow in any other industry? Doctors flowing up from podiatry to neurosurgery? Teachers flowing from kindergarten to college? Stay focused, work hard, and advance your career like any other industry.

 

Indoc - 5 days
CRM - 1 day
Gen Subs - 5 days
Systems - 9 Days
Break - Unknown amount of time it just depends on the sim schedules
FTD - 5 days
SIM - 11 lessons/days with several days off throughout.

 

This argument may hold water IF the other examples were regarding someone moving to the same job at a different company. A job as a podiatrist is not the same as a job as a neurosurgeon. A kindergarten teaching position is not the same as a college professor. The training, education and experience required for each of these positions is not equivalent.

What makes a pilot flow work is that the job on each of the equation is literally identical and the skills required to be successful in the interview process at either of them are gained prior to obtaining either job.

 

Probation is your actual job interview, the interview is just to determine whether or not Delta will unnecessarily waste money on someone who won't make it. You don't earn a job until you can prove yourself in that job.

If a pilot flows to Delta, and is fired, Delta loses both a pilot from mainline, and a pilot from their regional. This is not cost effective in any way.

 

Well hello there Scotty!

Unfortunately I think it just fans the smoldering.

Endeavor has NO flow. Endeavor allows for a guaranteed interview. Using the opportunity to show your EXPERIENCE, PERSONALITY, WORK ETHIC, RELIABILITY, PERFORANCE, and Desire may get you a CJO to Delta. That puts you in a "pool" of fellow CJO holders to "move" (aka-via this threads' terms- "flow") to Delta. Get hired at Endeavor. Do your best in training, perform well, don't be a sick time abuser, study, study, study, prep, interview... And go to Delta. That's the plan and path crafted. Perform well, study and prep for the interview, and you have a legit shot at a quicker movement to Delta compared to other avenues.

Endeavor interview stats may scare some, but in the end it comes down to performance, reliability, study, and prep. Those who didn't get the job may say different, but one of those metrics will get highlighted as the problem. As with any statistic, there will be outliers of "how did they get the job" and others of "how did they not get the job" but in the end, it's a great interview process and by personal experience very fair and straight forward.

 

Will be interesting to see how far down the list upgrades go on this next one...bloch head is still in play so that will play a big role...but with a few guys bypassing the upgrade because of CJO's at delta things should finally start moving the way we have been waiting for! congrats to all new(first time) captains!

 

The difference is the regional's hiring standards and basically take anyone with a pulse (at least in the last decade post 9/11) meant fog a mirror and you were in. Besides, most regional trips were no more than 4 day trips. Compare that to legacy widebody trips and being stuck with a d-bag for 12 days of a stretch. It seems Delta wised up and stopped the flow. You are correct about identical skills required in a regional vs a major job. But the hiring standards aren't the same and nor is the interview process. When the regionals are desperate, they sure will overlook a LOT of things. You know there were quite a few oddballs at 9E that would be a pain to fly with, but with a flow, there's no way to vet them out. An interview process at least gives a chance to weed some of the bad ones out.

 

The 5% being tool bags will exist and continue regardless of the level. Some guys can play nice in interviews (some even with recs), but in reality are complete tool bags, regardless of screening. Every place has the grouping. Bid against them. Or advice them, if dealing with them, off probation. Being in the left seat has an amazing effect on telling them to "stop". It's amazingly swell to tell the guy to shush and chill.