ceelo

I honestly don't get it. If these people (hanssolou, and the guy that works at Allegiant) actually didn't care about envoy and were happy to leave they wouldn't A. constantly hang out in the Envoy forums or B. create throwaway accounts to promote discussion of howwww much they hate envoy.

Like for real, just move on with your life! If that one guy really loves Allegiant then he shouldn't come back here lol. And to the OP if you're so glad to be an accountant, I'm sure there are some accountant forums somewhere.

itsmytime

Agreed. Hanssolou is the classic example of the guy who isn't sure about or regrets his decision. So he tries to get as many people as possible to make the same decision, thereby in his mind validating his mistake.

Bad way to live.

ag386

I was posting in this forum while still working at Envoy. As someone above mentioned, the cold hard facts at the time made me look beyond just applying at the legacies. I had 135 PIC time before arriving at Envoy but still wasn't extremely competitive at the time. Having the flow in my back pocket as some speak of here was OK but then I started to look deeply into the history of AMR/AAG/Envoy management in order to determine the real worth of that flow card.

What I came up with was that the flow as advertised wasn't going to happen. Due to the fact that Envoy had to operate their minimum schedule for AA coupled with the low number of new hires at the time, I was coming up with closer to 8 years at a time when 5 years was accepted as fact here. I believe that I have been proven correct in the time since late 2015 when I first began posting about this. Yes, Envoy is getting many more new hires now, however, management continues to add flying and airframes which just makes the hiring requirement go up.

Also, management has stated that 25 per month maximum throughout the PP group is all that is going to happen. In addition in 2017, there were 3 total months that zero Envoy flows were moved over to AA. This just extends the time that one here has to wait. Don't think that months with zero flows aside from December can't happen again. I think it's highly likely.

Let's look at some facts. Currently, flows are early 2006 hires. 12 year flow still intact. As of now, there are 100 pilots on the list total from 2006. 208 are on the list from 2007. If, IF, AAG/Envoy continue to flow 25 per month all year minus December, it will be this time next year before the last person hired in 2007 flows. You are essentially down to an 11 year flow at this point.

Considering outside attrition to legacies and other carriers that happens at Envoy in addition to the extra flying required by AAG, AND the new Endeavor/Republic contract rates, I feel like the perfect storm is brewing that will see not enough bodies to fly the schedule. Does anyone think Envoy or AAG for that matter will release people to flow when they cannot complete their flying schedule?

Aside from all of this, I determined at the time when I got called to work at Allegiant, even under their old contract, that my fortunes were better served by going there even if I had to fly the MD80. I live in South Florida so as you are aware, Envoy closed my MIA base and I was left to commute which degraded my QOL even further. Fortunately, I got the Airbus in my new hire class and was able to get based at home. I haven't done an overnight since arriving here 2 years ago. It's a true bonus that the new Allegiant contract was signed and I had a quick upgrade in my base. Had I stayed at Envoy, my pay rate as a 175 CA which I could hold now would be $75/hour vs. the $160/hour I'm getting now. Double the pay plus a little.

My decision was made due to the horrible treatment of the pilot group at the time and weighing out the options above. I understand that since QOL has gotten moderately better but still lacks in many areas. The original poster isn't 100% correct on every aspect but hits most of the points somewhat accurately.

I came back here to post in order to show that there are other options aside from waiting on a legacy with the flow in your back pocket. I have my apps in with the big 4 with no calls yet, but honestly if I don't get a call, a career at Allegiant isn't the worst thing in the world. I was berated on here and jumped on by a pack of recruiting hyenas who mocked my decision and derided me for being so stupid.

Looks like there are still a few of you recruiting and sales types about but not in the numbers of two years ago with all the cheerleading about Envoy's magical flow. I believe it's because most have figured out that the flow as originally advertised ain't happening.

itsmytime

:

Ok, so you made a good decision for yourself, and you are happy. Why do you feel the need to come on here and rip Envoy. Ok, so the flow is at 12 years, you left and did something different. That's your business.

Just like if someone wants to stay at Envoy for 12 years and wait, it's theirs. When you come on here constantly bashing Envoy talking about how smart you were for getting out, it makes you look childish, petty, and insecure. Not saying you are any of those things, as I don't know you, but you certainly come off that way.

The notion that you and the OP have that you have to save everyone from making the "critical mistake" of going to Envoy is ridiculous. You've made your decision, and say you are happy. That's great, but bashing a former employee constantly on their forum, certainly doesn't give that impression.

ag386

I'm not intending to come across as ripping Envoy or promoting myself. I did however, work at Envoy for quite a while and have seen the other side in regards specifically to the LCC model.

If one desires to stay at Envoy and wait for the flow for whatever reason, that's his or her choice and I have no issue with it. Just like others here should have no issue with someone who might desire to move on to an LCC or other carrier. There is no reason to rip one who moves on from Envoy as stupid and tossing charges at them such as "Hope you enjoy your career at Allegiant, that's where you will retire from."

Like the OP, I drop in and see how things are progressing at Envoy and comment on things that are totally untrue at times. Such as, flow is 6 years. If one is unhappy with my posts, they are free to block me.

ORDinary

It is definitely not expected to pickup in 2018.

bigtime209

This^^^^^^

Unless you mean that it will pick up if AA has no more training snags in 2018. Then you are correct, we will send a whopping 12 more pilots in 2018 than in 2017. The rate of flow is most certainly not picking up in the slightest.

itsmytime

I'm not unhappy with your posts , in fact I find them quite entertaining. I was just trying to point out how you were coming across, which may have led to some of the snippy replies you were receiving.

stanherman

Everything the OP said is pretty much par for the course at Envoy. All other regionals are getting pay increases, and great QOL improvements.

What does envoy get? Nothing.

And to the guys who say “tough it out, or it’s not that bad” YOU are the problem.

Armybeatnavy

100 % .. I blame the union and people think "its just a regional"