Read Before You Come To Envoy
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Position: RW instructor pilot and Maintenance test pilot
Posts: 177
I think many people interested in this field appreciate threads like this, especially since the OP said that experiences may vary, feel free to rebut with examples.
Reading through I had expected thoughtful responses, or at least discussion. Some back and forth. Instead what I got to read in replies was
OP you're
-stupid
-a virgin
-a virgin accountant
-a stupid virgin accountant
Or variations of that. I can't say if the arguments he made were true, but the time, effort, and opportunity he gave all parties to interact is appreciated.
If nothing else was learned here, it shows the character of some of the people you may have otherwise worked with at envoy. That in and of itself is worth it.
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,533
This thread is.....tough to label. I'll say this. It looks like the OP hit a button with many envoy "staffers/made men/lackeys" or whatever they are generally described as in this field.
I think many people interested in this field appreciate threads like this, especially since the OP said that experiences may vary, feel free to rebut with examples.
Reading through I had expected thoughtful responses, or at least discussion. Some back and forth. Instead what I got to read in replies was
OP you're
-stupid
-a virgin
-a virgin accountant
-a stupid virgin accountant
Or variations of that. I can't say if the arguments he made were true, but the time, effort, and opportunity he gave all parties to interact is appreciated.
If nothing else was learned here, it shows the character of some of the people you may have otherwise worked with at envoy. That in and of itself is worth it.
I think many people interested in this field appreciate threads like this, especially since the OP said that experiences may vary, feel free to rebut with examples.
Reading through I had expected thoughtful responses, or at least discussion. Some back and forth. Instead what I got to read in replies was
OP you're
-stupid
-a virgin
-a virgin accountant
-a stupid virgin accountant
Or variations of that. I can't say if the arguments he made were true, but the time, effort, and opportunity he gave all parties to interact is appreciated.
If nothing else was learned here, it shows the character of some of the people you may have otherwise worked with at envoy. That in and of itself is worth it.
I have spoken with plenty of people who still fly for them. All agree that Envoy needs improvement. However, the ones I've spoken with also feel the place is not NEARLY as bad as some make it out to be. Point being, it's up to each individual to decide if he's reasonably happy there or not. Many of the issues that strongly bother him don't bother others much at all. It's all in each person's perspective.
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 854
There are reasons to come here, and reasons not to. These are just my opinions:
Reasons Why You Shouldn’t Come to Envoy:
1) Flow is Nonexistent. Metered. And Completely Unacceptable
Truth: 2 out of 5. It exists, and is metered. Acceptability is subjective.
Importance: 5
2) You will commute to New York
Truth: 4
Importance: 2. You'll be able to bid out soon enough. Does anyone expect an airline career with zero commuting?
2a) If you go to New York, You will be run by someone with little authority to be a Chief Pilot
Truth: 5
Importance: 2
3) Flight Benefits Are Worth Very Little
Truth: 1
Importance: doesn't matter if it is not true.
4) Pay (Especially our Absurd Bonus Structure)
Truth: 3. This would be lower but for Endeavor.
Importance: 5
5) Expect To Be Underpaid
Truth: 5. The company should be embarrassed. Pay Comp is either woefully understaffed or woefully undertrained, probably both, and has been for years. I've been underpaid many times.
Importance: 5
6) Expect a Merger with Piedmont in the Near Future
Truth: ???
Importance: ???
7) Constant Junior Manning
Truth: 2.5. Constant isn't true...
Importance: 5 ...but when it happens to you it sucks.
8) The Company Will Violate the Contract
Truth: 5.
Importance: 5.
9) Fatigue Calls Will Count Against You
Truth: 4. This happens occasionally, and is BS.
Importance: 3. Because every airline seems kind of slimy about this.
10) Forced Upgrades
Truth: 5
Importance: 3 or 4. Everyone should know about this by now. Upgrading can also be good.
11) Training Is Subpar at Best
Truth: 3 or 4, I think. Our training was always fantastic. The huge turnover in the training department seems to have had an effect.
12) Deadhead Pay is 75%
Truth: 5
Importance: 1
13) CRJ is Hell
Truth: 5
Importance: varies
14) Fired for Being Sick
Truth: Hard to say. Was he fired for being a vocal union rep? Possibly.
Importance: 5
15) Long Sits
Truth: 5
Importance: 1
16) AA gives the Table Scraps of Flying
Truth: 5
Importance: 1
17) Benefits Cost More for Pilots than Any Other Workforce
Truth: I have no idea.
Importance: 4
18) Midday Flying is Nonexistent
Truth: 3. Hyperbole.
Importance: 1
Specifics To Reserve:
19) Airport Standby (or Ready Reserve)
Truth: 5
Importance: 4
20) No Long Call
Truth: 3. Technically if you don't receive or confirm a reserve assignment, you are long call. Doesn't happen often, but happens.
Importance: 4
21) Escalating RAP to Standby
Truth: 5
Importance: 4
1) Flow is Nonexistent. Metered. And Completely Unacceptable
Truth: 2 out of 5. It exists, and is metered. Acceptability is subjective.
Importance: 5
2) You will commute to New York
Truth: 4
Importance: 2. You'll be able to bid out soon enough. Does anyone expect an airline career with zero commuting?
2a) If you go to New York, You will be run by someone with little authority to be a Chief Pilot
Truth: 5
Importance: 2
3) Flight Benefits Are Worth Very Little
Truth: 1
Importance: doesn't matter if it is not true.
4) Pay (Especially our Absurd Bonus Structure)
Truth: 3. This would be lower but for Endeavor.
Importance: 5
5) Expect To Be Underpaid
Truth: 5. The company should be embarrassed. Pay Comp is either woefully understaffed or woefully undertrained, probably both, and has been for years. I've been underpaid many times.
Importance: 5
6) Expect a Merger with Piedmont in the Near Future
Truth: ???
Importance: ???
7) Constant Junior Manning
Truth: 2.5. Constant isn't true...
Importance: 5 ...but when it happens to you it sucks.
8) The Company Will Violate the Contract
Truth: 5.
Importance: 5.
9) Fatigue Calls Will Count Against You
Truth: 4. This happens occasionally, and is BS.
Importance: 3. Because every airline seems kind of slimy about this.
10) Forced Upgrades
Truth: 5
Importance: 3 or 4. Everyone should know about this by now. Upgrading can also be good.
11) Training Is Subpar at Best
Truth: 3 or 4, I think. Our training was always fantastic. The huge turnover in the training department seems to have had an effect.
12) Deadhead Pay is 75%
Truth: 5
Importance: 1
13) CRJ is Hell
Truth: 5
Importance: varies
14) Fired for Being Sick
Truth: Hard to say. Was he fired for being a vocal union rep? Possibly.
Importance: 5
15) Long Sits
Truth: 5
Importance: 1
16) AA gives the Table Scraps of Flying
Truth: 5
Importance: 1
17) Benefits Cost More for Pilots than Any Other Workforce
Truth: I have no idea.
Importance: 4
18) Midday Flying is Nonexistent
Truth: 3. Hyperbole.
Importance: 1
Specifics To Reserve:
19) Airport Standby (or Ready Reserve)
Truth: 5
Importance: 4
20) No Long Call
Truth: 3. Technically if you don't receive or confirm a reserve assignment, you are long call. Doesn't happen often, but happens.
Importance: 4
21) Escalating RAP to Standby
Truth: 5
Importance: 4
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 260
This thread is.....tough to label. I'll say this. It looks like the OP hit a button with many envoy "staffers/made men/lackeys" or whatever they are generally described as in this field.
I think many people interested in this field appreciate threads like this, especially since the OP said that experiences may vary, feel free to rebut with examples.
Reading through I had expected thoughtful responses, or at least discussion. Some back and forth. Instead what I got to read in replies was
OP you're
-stupid
-a virgin
-a virgin accountant
-a stupid virgin accountant
Or variations of that. I can't say if the arguments he made were true, but the time, effort, and opportunity he gave all parties to interact is appreciated.
If nothing else was learned here, it shows the character of some of the people you may have otherwise worked with at envoy. That in and of itself is worth it.
I think many people interested in this field appreciate threads like this, especially since the OP said that experiences may vary, feel free to rebut with examples.
Reading through I had expected thoughtful responses, or at least discussion. Some back and forth. Instead what I got to read in replies was
OP you're
-stupid
-a virgin
-a virgin accountant
-a stupid virgin accountant
Or variations of that. I can't say if the arguments he made were true, but the time, effort, and opportunity he gave all parties to interact is appreciated.
If nothing else was learned here, it shows the character of some of the people you may have otherwise worked with at envoy. That in and of itself is worth it.
#106
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 20
Thanks man...much appreciated information
Thank you for taking the time out to type all that. I am certain it took a lot of your time.
Those defending are probably recruiters or Envoy milkmaids and juicers.
This is excellent information for those of us seeking which direction to go and man...you helped me and I am sure several others.
Its too bad that they mistreat their pilots like that... after all, there IS a reason bonuses are offered.
Its super simple...keep your pilot group happy = keep your pilots
Why they don't get it, who knows????
Don't give up...you just got unlucky with where you went. There are some great airlines out there that have a good QOL and treat their employees well.
Good Luck !!!
Those defending are probably recruiters or Envoy milkmaids and juicers.
This is excellent information for those of us seeking which direction to go and man...you helped me and I am sure several others.
Its too bad that they mistreat their pilots like that... after all, there IS a reason bonuses are offered.
Its super simple...keep your pilot group happy = keep your pilots
Why they don't get it, who knows????
Don't give up...you just got unlucky with where you went. There are some great airlines out there that have a good QOL and treat their employees well.
Good Luck !!!
#107
Thank you for taking the time out to type all that. I am certain it took a lot of your time.
Those defending are probably recruiters or Envoy milkmaids and juicers.
This is excellent information for those of us seeking which direction to go and man...you helped me and I am sure several others.
Its too bad that they mistreat their pilots like that... after all, there IS a reason bonuses are offered.
Its super simple...keep your pilot group happy = keep your pilots
Why they don't get it, who knows????
Don't give up...you just got unlucky with where you went. There are some great airlines out there that have a good QOL and treat their employees well.
Good Luck !!!
Those defending are probably recruiters or Envoy milkmaids and juicers.
This is excellent information for those of us seeking which direction to go and man...you helped me and I am sure several others.
Its too bad that they mistreat their pilots like that... after all, there IS a reason bonuses are offered.
Its super simple...keep your pilot group happy = keep your pilots
Why they don't get it, who knows????
Don't give up...you just got unlucky with where you went. There are some great airlines out there that have a good QOL and treat their employees well.
Good Luck !!!
Cool.
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 540
They'll sell you BS by the truckload here on just how lightning fast you'll be at AA.
What do you think about that? Cool huh.
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 687
He's right. This board is a hotbed for Envoy recruiters and slimy salesmen that come on here and put the hard sell on unsuspecting saps such as yourself.
They'll sell you BS by the truckload here on just how lightning fast you'll be at AA.
What do you think about that? Cool huh.
They'll sell you BS by the truckload here on just how lightning fast you'll be at AA.
What do you think about that? Cool huh.
#110
He's right. This board is a hotbed for Envoy recruiters and slimy salesmen that come on here and put the hard sell on unsuspecting saps such as yourself.
They'll sell you BS by the truckload here on just how lightning fast you'll be at AA.
What do you think about that? Cool huh.
They'll sell you BS by the truckload here on just how lightning fast you'll be at AA.
What do you think about that? Cool huh.
Back to Envoy though - it's a regional. I'm picking a regional where I have a high chance of driving to work and if need be bidding another base that works for me and where I can drive to work too. I tend to like the current uniform. I'd prefer something with a VNAV, but will settle for the 145. Reserve rules suck, but I hope it'll get better eventually. Same goes for pay - given the opportunity I'd trade the sign on bonus for higher rates. But at the end of the day, it is what it is at this point in time. Would i love to have Air Whiskey health insurance and trip/duty rigs with Endeavor rates and Envoy bases that work for me and guaranteed flow in 5 years? Yes. Is it possible? No. Well then, working with what's possible then.
Message I quoted originally was eye-roll-worthy, that's all, nothing else to see here.
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