Flow to AA
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 188
One has to believe that outside attrition will pickup at some point, which will drive the flow time down. Retirements really haven’t even gone into full swing yet. And that doesn’t even include those who don’t want to wait until 65 to retire. That being said, trying to predict something more than 3 years out in this industry is just a wild ass guess anyways.
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
One has to believe that outside attrition will pickup at some point, which will drive the flow time down. Retirements really haven’t even gone into full swing yet. And that doesn’t even include those who don’t want to wait until 65 to retire. That being said, trying to predict something more than 3 years out in this industry is just a wild ass guess anyways.
#13
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Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 260
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2011
Posts: 239
9.5 years is with zero attrition outside the flow. Do you really think not a single pilot will leave this airline for Delta, United, SWA, retirement, etc. Plus attrition can safely be assumed to increase as we get deeper into the hiring curve.
From reading the various forums, it appears that approximately 400 pilots left Envoy last year (including the flow).
So, you will accelerate fairly quickly for the first year or so. Then, an ever increasing percentage of the attrition will move below you until you finally flow. The last six months prior to your flow will probably see very little outside attrition affecting your flow date.
The equation isn’t as simple as number of pilots on the list right now divided by rate of flow. That assumes everyone stays and everyone flows. Also factor in that 5-10% of the senior folks on the list list will decline the flow.
So 2300 pilots minus 150-ish declining.
Total list now 2150. The following is all just best guess based on flow and outside attrition estimates (back of the napkin numbers only):
400 - Year 1
350 - Year 2
300 - Year 3
300 - Year 4
300 - Year 5
250 - Year 6
250 - Year 7
Total = 2150
The math is really loose, but 6-7 years is not unrealistic in this environment. The numbers above are my prediction on how the total attrition ahead of a new pilot will play out through their years of service. Assumptions (such as annual attrition outisde he flow) play a big part. Zero that out and you’re looking at 9-10+ years.
From reading the various forums, it appears that approximately 400 pilots left Envoy last year (including the flow).
So, you will accelerate fairly quickly for the first year or so. Then, an ever increasing percentage of the attrition will move below you until you finally flow. The last six months prior to your flow will probably see very little outside attrition affecting your flow date.
The equation isn’t as simple as number of pilots on the list right now divided by rate of flow. That assumes everyone stays and everyone flows. Also factor in that 5-10% of the senior folks on the list list will decline the flow.
So 2300 pilots minus 150-ish declining.
Total list now 2150. The following is all just best guess based on flow and outside attrition estimates (back of the napkin numbers only):
400 - Year 1
350 - Year 2
300 - Year 3
300 - Year 4
300 - Year 5
250 - Year 6
250 - Year 7
Total = 2150
The math is really loose, but 6-7 years is not unrealistic in this environment. The numbers above are my prediction on how the total attrition ahead of a new pilot will play out through their years of service. Assumptions (such as annual attrition outisde he flow) play a big part. Zero that out and you’re looking at 9-10+ years.
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 260
9.5 years is with zero attrition outside the flow. Do you really think not a single pilot will leave this airline for Delta, United, SWA, retirement, etc. Plus attrition can safely be assumed to increase as we get deeper into the hiring curve.
From reading the various forums, it appears that approximately 400 pilots left Envoy last year (including the flow).
So, you will accelerate fairly quickly for the first year or so. Then, an ever increasing percentage of the attrition will move below you until you finally flow. The last six months prior to your flow will probably see very little outside attrition affecting your flow date.
The equation isn’t as simple as number of pilots on the list right now divided by rate of flow. That assumes everyone stays and everyone flows. Also factor in that 5-10% of the senior folks on the list list will decline the flow.
So 2300 pilots minus 150-ish declining.
Total list now 2150. The following is all just best guess based on flow and outside attrition estimates (back of the napkin numbers only):
400 - Year 1
350 - Year 2
300 - Year 3
300 - Year 4
300 - Year 5
250 - Year 6
250 - Year 7
Total = 2150
The math is really loose, but 6-7 years is not unrealistic in this environment. The numbers above are my prediction on how the total attrition ahead of a new pilot will play out through their years of service. Assumptions (such as annual attrition outisde he flow) play a big part. Zero that out and you’re looking at 9-10+ years.
From reading the various forums, it appears that approximately 400 pilots left Envoy last year (including the flow).
So, you will accelerate fairly quickly for the first year or so. Then, an ever increasing percentage of the attrition will move below you until you finally flow. The last six months prior to your flow will probably see very little outside attrition affecting your flow date.
The equation isn’t as simple as number of pilots on the list right now divided by rate of flow. That assumes everyone stays and everyone flows. Also factor in that 5-10% of the senior folks on the list list will decline the flow.
So 2300 pilots minus 150-ish declining.
Total list now 2150. The following is all just best guess based on flow and outside attrition estimates (back of the napkin numbers only):
400 - Year 1
350 - Year 2
300 - Year 3
300 - Year 4
300 - Year 5
250 - Year 6
250 - Year 7
Total = 2150
The math is really loose, but 6-7 years is not unrealistic in this environment. The numbers above are my prediction on how the total attrition ahead of a new pilot will play out through their years of service. Assumptions (such as annual attrition outisde he flow) play a big part. Zero that out and you’re looking at 9-10+ years.
It’s basically a crap shoot to be honest. We are completely at this whim of the company.
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2011
Posts: 239
I hope you’re correct, believe me as I currently sit at a 12/22 flow date. However, attrition may reduce the time but if the company drops below 25 a month that will certainly offset it.
It’s basically a crap shoot to be honest. We are completely at this whim of the company.
It’s basically a crap shoot to be honest. We are completely at this whim of the company.
And don’t get me wrong...the mega classes of 70 were pushing flow time in the wrong direction. Any time you’re adding 80 more per month than the flow number they should expect the month they go to AA that is a problem (since, and I’m just guessing here, attrition likely won’t increase enough to offset that).
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,523
I hope you’re correct, believe me as I currently sit at a 12/22 flow date. However, attrition may reduce the time but if the company drops below 25 a month that will certainly offset it.
It’s basically a crap shoot to be honest. We are completely at this whim of the company.
It’s basically a crap shoot to be honest. We are completely at this whim of the company.
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 263
From ALPA...2027 for latest new hire. The flow is fairy dust....pretend for a lot of us and candidates are understanding it and going elsewhere. Endeavor training department is booked through May and they offer just a $10k sign on bonus and they’ve started street captains this week. Main reason they’re going to Endeavor, they like their odds in a preferential interview over a flow that will happen after they find a mate, get married and the kids are graduating from elementary school.
Last edited by Inop2; 02-15-2018 at 03:21 PM.
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