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Old 04-07-2022, 07:34 PM
  #2181  
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Originally Posted by chihuahua View Post
No sandbagging for me, I have over 1000 121.

If the 145s die, wouldn't that help the staffing situation greatly in what would then be a significantly smaller airline? That's kinda what I was hoping. All resources get put towards the 175, and assuming our extremely stressed monopoly money economy doesn't collapse soon, the next few years would continue with the hiring and movement and therefore bring good seniority and a chance of eventually holding an MIA CA spot with a decent schedule and then on from there. That's the trajectory that everyone was kind of on before 2020. I assume AA will still want to operate those 175s for some time.
A shrinking airline is never a good thing. AA may want to operate the planes, but a smaller airline means less significance. Fewer aircraft means fewer flights and hours and crappier flight files. Schedules will NOT get better. The more puzzle pieces (planes, pilots, hours and destinations) means more ways to put them together which helps optimize things. So less of all those things means things gets worse. You may think that the 175 will maintain its status quo, but I can assure you that those 145 pieces still help the overall picture. As I stated earlier, there are only three 175s on order and few if any more 170s to be had. AAG would much rather give the flying to the likes of SKW and RPA that have money to buy their own aircraft.

If you already have the time for upgrade, then you will be going to ORD as a 145 captain. 145 in ORD will be the most junior captain until those planes go away completely. While the CRJ was still in play and dying a very slow and painful death, it was the bane of those stuck on it.

If you really want to avoid that, you better be prepared to sit out as long as it takes for the last 145 to go away from Envoy and that will indeed leave this place worse off than it is.
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Old 04-07-2022, 08:57 PM
  #2182  
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Originally Posted by pitchattitude View Post
A shrinking airline is never a good thing. AA may want to operate the planes, but a smaller airline means less significance. Fewer aircraft means fewer flights and hours and crappier flight files. Schedules will NOT get better. The more puzzle pieces (planes, pilots, hours and destinations) means more ways to put them together which helps optimize things. So less of all those things means things gets worse. You may think that the 175 will maintain its status quo, but I can assure you that those 145 pieces still help the overall picture. As I stated earlier, there are only three 175s on order and few if any more 170s to be had. AAG would much rather give the flying to the likes of SKW and RPA that have money to buy their own aircraft.

If you already have the time for upgrade, then you will be going to ORD as a 145 captain. 145 in ORD will be the most junior captain until those planes go away completely. While the CRJ was still in play and dying a very slow and painful death, it was the bane of those stuck on it.

If you really want to avoid that, you better be prepared to sit out as long as it takes for the last 145 to go away from Envoy and that will indeed leave this place worse off than it is.
Well, there goes that idea if that's how it would play out. lol.

Makes sense what you're saying though, even with keeping the 175, Envoy would just end up doing more of the low credit 145 flying with the 175, and mainline would take more of the longer high credit flying.
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Old 04-08-2022, 02:54 AM
  #2183  
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Originally Posted by chihuahua View Post
Well, there goes that idea if that's how it would play out. lol.

Makes sense what you're saying though, even with keeping the 175, Envoy would just end up doing more of the low credit 145 flying with the 175, and mainline would take more of the longer high credit flying.
The other elephant in the room is if Envoy were to shrink, there is nothing to say that it would keep MIA as a base. NY flying came and went. It lasted as a base for what, four years this time around?

There are CURRENTLY rumors of RPA taking back the MIA flying. Can’t say that they are or aren’t accurate, for right now, but if Envoy lost the equivalent of all the 145 flying, I wouldn’t at all be surprised to lose MIA.

AAG likes to play shell games with its flying, which is why it keeps several WOs as well as contract regionals around.

If Envoy lost MIA as a base again, it would lose appeal for a large demographic of people, which would further hamper recruiting.

As I said, a shrinking airline is NEVER a good thing. Ask the guys at Compas, TSA and Express Jet.
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Old 04-08-2022, 07:49 AM
  #2184  
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Originally Posted by pitchattitude View Post
11 days off is the contractual minimum days off for line holders as well, again, for both aircraft. Once you get a line, timeframe unknown, based on base and aircraft and variable, expect 3-6 months, you can expect to get a line that only has 11 days off. Once you get some seniority, you will start seeing lines with 12 and then 13 days off a month.
You'll start seeing lines with 12-13 days off, maybe even 14. But then they bring you down to 11 with carry over. Don't want carry over? Enjoy your 4 on 2 off schedule. The lines have been miserable for at least the last year.
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Old 04-08-2022, 09:38 AM
  #2185  
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Originally Posted by pitchattitude View Post
The other elephant in the room is if Envoy were to shrink, there is nothing to say that it would keep MIA as a base. NY flying came and went. It lasted as a base for what, four years this time around?

There are CURRENTLY rumors of RPA taking back the MIA flying. Can’t say that they are or aren’t accurate, for right now, but if Envoy lost the equivalent of all the 145 flying, I wouldn’t at all be surprised to lose MIA.

AAG likes to play shell games with its flying, which is why it keeps several WOs as well as contract regionals around.

If Envoy lost MIA as a base again, it would lose appeal for a large demographic of people, which would further hamper recruiting.

As I said, a shrinking airline is NEVER a good thing. Ask the guys at Compas, TSA and Express Jet.
What was the issue with RPA losing the MIA flying back to Envoy? IIRC it was something about their planes and being able to fly over water? Is RPA even able to handle more flying anyway, seems like every regional is losing pilots at rate greater than it can replace them.
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Old 04-08-2022, 10:31 AM
  #2186  
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Originally Posted by chihuahua View Post
What was the issue with RPA losing the MIA flying back to Envoy? IIRC it was something about their planes and being able to fly over water? Is RPA even able to handle more flying anyway, seems like every regional is losing pilots at rate greater than it can replace them.
Initially Envoy was given a choice between Canadian flying and Caribbean and chose Canada. There was an initial reluctance to have the Envoy 175s EOW certified. It was a dollar consideration, both the initial act and continued cost of equipping and maintaining the life vests as well as the slight weight penalty. The Envoy planes are nearly all EOW equipped after initially just doing 20. I don’t think the 170s have the EOW equipment, but those planes were intended to fly out of ORD. The move of RPA out of MIA was just another shell game of regional flying by AAG. RPA’s presence has increased at ORD and in the NE. Envoy lost NY and was beefed up in MIA.

You are right, nobody can really afford to take on MORE flying. It will be a matter of who shrinks the least and where their flying remains.

But as I said, as things shrink, you can expect to see changes. It’s my bet that closing MIA as an Envoy base would be likely if it were to lose all the 145s without a considerable amount of 170/175s to replace them and their flying. While that has always been the desire, a significant number of additional 175s isn’t something that appears to be happening anytime soon.
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Old 04-08-2022, 10:42 AM
  #2187  
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So whats the deal with the 170s? They are looking all over the world for 2nd and 3rd hand planes apparently. Is this a being cheap issue or does Embraer not produce the 170 anymore?
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Old 04-08-2022, 01:24 PM
  #2188  
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Originally Posted by Propeller View Post
So whats the deal with the 170s? They are looking all over the world for 2nd and 3rd hand planes apparently. Is this a being cheap issue or does Embraer not produce the 170 anymore?
Embraer does not still build the 170. There were only about 190 of them built all together. Republic is the largest single operator of them, as I understand, mostly flying them on the Delta contract. I think AeroMexico was the next largest operator with 13. Envoy was supposed to get those, but they turned out to be complete trash and ended up with one. They did get the six from BA CitiFlyer. That only leaves operators with one or two or three planes a piece. Hard to build any kind of fleet size that way.

I’m fairly certain if AAG went to Embraer and told them they wanted 100 170s, that Embraer would build them. The problem is AAG doesn’t want to buy them. 170s or 175s. That’s why RPA and SKW are getting flying, because THEY are buying the planes. That is why Envoy will continue to get the leftover flying with all the inefficiency that it contains.

I don’t know all the ins and outs of the American scope clause. There may be room for more large RJs under the scope clause, but the 170 counts as a small RJ under scope so is a direct replacement for the 145.
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Old 04-08-2022, 01:53 PM
  #2189  
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Originally Posted by harrypotter View Post
It is getting faster for the newer people and it will get much better once they have caught up all the orientation/indoc classes of 60/45 people. They have made the classes smaller on purpose, to decrease wait times and get us flying asap (which is what we all want!).

My experience so far:
Feb 16th orientation (#6 from top of seniority OF THAT CLASS)
March 7th indoc ( #3 from the bottom of 15 of that INDOC CLASS)
people ahead of me have already been called back to the next part of training and MY specific Finish date is JUNE.
Which is still within that 3-4 months training timeframe that all the other regionals (that i have talked to friends at) listed below.

I tell you this to give you insight (& hopefully less not more worry) because we are all so type A we hate feeling blind to our future XD. But i wouldnt stress about it taking along time, it is across the industry, and we are getting paid nicely, 65hr monthly guaruntee starting from orientation date plus perdiem the whole time until IOE complete. We should just use this awesome extra time to study more and not feel so crammed with studying so much so fast. and travel! Use Flight Deck Jumpseat privileges! its AWESOME!

Mesa: finished ATP/CTP waiting for sims 6 months on E175, less wait on CRJ200
Skywest: 3-4 month training (from Indoc start) including 4 week delay from ATP check to IOE trip, only got .8 sitting reserve for the first WHOLE MONTH after IOE completed
Republic: 3-4 month training (from Indoc start)

like others have said, we are loosing sim and check instructors/captains (ones who can do IOE trips) and amount of sims avail are all causing bottle necks, BUT no forced upgrades yet is good.

ALSO Envoy itself is on track to RECEIVE 3 MORE E175 SIMS by the end of this year so that will also ramp things up. Not to mention the fact that at envoy they have a training program called Advanced Qualification Program, which means they basically wrote 8 ATP checkride scenarios and the DPE choses one and thats what we fly, so we will know exactly what to expect for our ATP check.

So far management/training are nice and they just are covering their bases by having a large backfill of pilots ready to start training at any time. they usually give you a few days notice for the next part of training but you can request up to 7, youll get pushed back though to the next class. People cant come for several reasons, sick, covid, etc and thats fine with them but they like having the large amounts waiting incase for those reasons. Of course COVID is dying down and that was throwing like a quarter of the classes out at a time for mandatory 2 week quarantine. So maybe thats another reason why classes are smaller.
Man. You sound like me 3 years ago. All full of optimism.

That will die soon. You'll see that the stuff RW/RN told you guys in your orientation is all lies, such as the 3 new sims. When I started, it was "LAX base is a done deal" and other gems like that.
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Old 04-08-2022, 02:10 PM
  #2190  
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Originally Posted by dera View Post
Man. You sound like me 3 years ago. All full of optimism.

That will die soon. You'll see that the stuff RW/RN told you guys in your orientation is all lies, such as the 3 new sims. When I started, it was "LAX base is a done deal" and other gems like that.

He went hard on that Kool Aid man
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