Why does envoy not stop offering bonuses, then we will see how big the flocks are.

 

I’m by no means an Envoy cheer leader, but the new hires I fly with aren’t coming here just for flow. People apply here because they know envoy is wholly owned and more stable than *******hole companies like GoJet and Compass. We may not be the highest paid, and our management may hate pilots, but we’re still one of the top regionals in the U.S.

 

You're going to get so much hate for this post...

 

No, he’s right. Stability and the idea of “flow in the back pocket” is basically why I came here in early ‘18; however, at that time most of the information available was also “you’ll be off reserve in a couple months at most” and “DFW awarded in training.” If I’d known what I know now, Envoy would not have been in my top 3, or my first choice of wholly-owned, then or now. I do have less sympathy for people coming in today who feel screwed, the voices here and elsewhere describing the 145 experience in particular are a lot louder than the ones bragging about 175 easy street.

 

Stable? As in the pilots on the not so distant past had to bail this company out of bankruptcy by giving concessions on everything?

Not the highest paid? Try not even close to the highest paid.

Explain how a company that’s been in bankruptcy this decade, has some of the lower paid pilots, back of the line qol issues and has management that you admit hates the pilots is a “top regional”?

I wasn’t even here then so I will assume someone that went through has even better examples.

 

We had some kid at 9E start a thread that was called "Stop coming here!" several months ago. There were two key takeaways from that thread:

- As a few folks have said here, if you tell people to stop coming here, then you're potentially stagnating the seniority list. Depending on the situation, that might be worth it (see F9 in 2018), or that might not be worth it. Just know that's a potential consequence.

- Management reads these forums, and they can potentially find out who you are. The kid who started the 9E thread was a probationary pilot who very unexpectedly went silent on APC. Complaining about the company is one thing, but saying something that can actively hurt recruiting at the company will turn the company's attention toward you.

Folks familiar with that 9E thread could justifiably say, "well, that kid was an idiot." Okay, so he was an idiot. However, just because you actually have legitimate gripes at Envoy doesn't mean that Envoy wouldn't retaliate the same way toward you, particularly if you're probationary.

I wish you folks good luck!

 

You’re right about lower pay and some other items. But the bankruptcy was thanks to AMR not necessarily Eagle. Because we were wholly owned by AMR we by default were in bankruptcy, and as in all bankruptcies concessions had to be made. The real blow came after bankruptcy and merger when Parker & Kirby told us “the world changed” and we had to choke down more concessions or go “comair II.”

Other than that time and since, I’d say it is fair to say “stable.” We are and have been backed by AA and with the amount of money they invest here (infrastructure, bonuses, planes) and have since grown since the dark times I think stable is an appropriate term.

 

Yeah I mean if AAG has to go down to take Envoy down it’s pretty much as stable as a regional can get.

 

They said the same thing about Express One.

 

Go speak with anybody present during contract negotiations when they threatened to just walk into the crew rooms offer transfer to PSA and Piedmont with a faster flow and quicker upgrade than Eagle... and once you guys are all downgraded, back on reserve and shrunk small enough, you’re Comair II. So take these concessions or be unemployed. We went from 3200 pilots to 1500 while they carried out their threat.

There is no stability in the regional industry. It’s a shell game. Get in, get your time, get out