ENVOY presented with details on new contract
12-11-2014, 11:38 AM
#482
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,030
Originally Posted by buddies8
this is how it breaks down
1. your guaranteed 10-15% yes voters due to fear or weakness.
2. 12,500 bonus for captains. some who would not flow will now flow and use this money as a cushion for the pay cut. 10-15%
3. the flow enhancements which is not much different from what we have now but sounds good when you spin it. 10-15%
4. those who have been no votes are just beaten down like a wet dog. 10-15%
5. mid level seniority captains get the 12,500 dollars but have to wait for there turn to flow but if this passes then number 2 above with the senior pilots leave on the flow these captains move up on seniority better schedules and QOL while they wait to flow. 10-15%
this gives you somewhere between 50-75% that they are looking at as yes voters. even if you median it, 62.5% yes voters, thats what aag is looking at.
1. your guaranteed 10-15% yes voters due to fear or weakness.
2. 12,500 bonus for captains. some who would not flow will now flow and use this money as a cushion for the pay cut. 10-15%
3. the flow enhancements which is not much different from what we have now but sounds good when you spin it. 10-15%
4. those who have been no votes are just beaten down like a wet dog. 10-15%
5. mid level seniority captains get the 12,500 dollars but have to wait for there turn to flow but if this passes then number 2 above with the senior pilots leave on the flow these captains move up on seniority better schedules and QOL while they wait to flow. 10-15%
this gives you somewhere between 50-75% that they are looking at as yes voters. even if you median it, 62.5% yes voters, thats what aag is looking at.
Last edited by Cubdriver; 12-11-2014 at 01:02 PM. Reason: real name
12-11-2014, 11:44 AM
#483
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by RJ Pilot
Waiting on *** to chime in.You guys need the luck to survive.
Good Luck.
Good Luck.
Good Luck.
Last edited by Cubdriver; 12-11-2014 at 01:02 PM. Reason: real name
12-11-2014, 01:05 PM
#485
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Position: seated facing forward
Posts: 105
This TA is worse than the rejected TA in every possible way.
Flow through: Rejected TA first 30 every month; minimum 360 a year.
Current TA; 50% or 30 whichever is less; 220 a year.
Profit Sharing: Rejected TA elimination of profit sharing was subject to the same concession by all other AE employess. Current TA has no such stipulation, it just gives up profit sharing.
PBS: Rejected TA pushed any obligation to ratify PBS until the 61st 175 delivery. This placed a financial incentive on the company to place the options here. Current TA delays PBS until the delivery of the 40th 175, thereby removing the incentive to place the options here.
I could go on, but you get the idea. How does this TA become endorsed by the MEC? It is a worse deal than what was rejected by a majority of our pilots and this MEC endorses it!!??
Is $12,500 enough to buy a sucker?
Flow through: Rejected TA first 30 every month; minimum 360 a year.
Current TA; 50% or 30 whichever is less; 220 a year.
Profit Sharing: Rejected TA elimination of profit sharing was subject to the same concession by all other AE employess. Current TA has no such stipulation, it just gives up profit sharing.
PBS: Rejected TA pushed any obligation to ratify PBS until the 61st 175 delivery. This placed a financial incentive on the company to place the options here. Current TA delays PBS until the delivery of the 40th 175, thereby removing the incentive to place the options here.
I could go on, but you get the idea. How does this TA become endorsed by the MEC? It is a worse deal than what was rejected by a majority of our pilots and this MEC endorses it!!??
Is $12,500 enough to buy a sucker?
12-11-2014, 01:24 PM
#486
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by SnoJet440
This TA is worse than the rejected TA in every possible way.....Is $12,500 enough to buy a sucker?
It seems like there are plenty of "it's good for me" RJ pilots presently at Envoy. Not sure if that will be the majority though.
12-11-2014, 01:24 PM
#487
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by SnoJet440
This TA is worse than the rejected TA in every possible way.
Flow through: Rejected TA first 30 every month; minimum 360 a year.
Current TA; 50% or 30 whichever is less; 220 a year.
Profit Sharing: Rejected TA elimination of profit sharing was subject to the same concession by all other AE employess. Current TA has no such stipulation, it just gives up profit sharing.
PBS: Rejected TA pushed any obligation to ratify PBS until the 61st 175 delivery. This placed a financial incentive on the company to place the options here. Current TA delays PBS until the delivery of the 40th 175, thereby removing the incentive to place the options here.
I could go on, but you get the idea. How does this TA become endorsed by the MEC? It is a worse deal than what was rejected by a majority of our pilots and this MEC endorses it!!??
Is $12,500 enough to buy a sucker?
Flow through: Rejected TA first 30 every month; minimum 360 a year.
Current TA; 50% or 30 whichever is less; 220 a year.
Profit Sharing: Rejected TA elimination of profit sharing was subject to the same concession by all other AE employess. Current TA has no such stipulation, it just gives up profit sharing.
PBS: Rejected TA pushed any obligation to ratify PBS until the 61st 175 delivery. This placed a financial incentive on the company to place the options here. Current TA delays PBS until the delivery of the 40th 175, thereby removing the incentive to place the options here.
I could go on, but you get the idea. How does this TA become endorsed by the MEC? It is a worse deal than what was rejected by a majority of our pilots and this MEC endorses it!!??
Is $12,500 enough to buy a sucker?
Flow is not how you put it
Current TA
824 Flow Through
If AA is hiring pilots, 50% of all AA new hire training slots, no less than 20 per month, shall go to Envoy pilots until a total of 824 Envoy pilots have flowed through to AA.
Effective with the delivery of the first EMB-175 as set forth in Appendix D, and assuming 824 Envoy pilots have not flowed through to AA at that time, 50% of all AA new hire training slots, no less than 30 per month (subject to the 50%), shall go to Envoy pilots until a total of 824 Envoy pilots have flowed through to AA.
“Protected Pilots” Hired By Envoy On or Before October 11, 2011
After a total of 824 Envoy pilots have flowed through to AA, if AA is hiring pilots, 35% of all AA new hire training slots, no less than 25 per month, shall go to Envoy pilots who were placed on the Envoy master seniority list on or before October 11, 2011.
Effective with the delivery of the 40th EMB-175 as set forth in Appendix D, and assuming there are still pilots who were added to the master seniority before October 11, 2011 who have not yet been offered a flow through opportunity, 50% of all AA new hire training slots, no less than 25 per month, shall go to such Envoy pilots, until the point in time when the next pilot on the seniority list to be offered a flow through opportunity was hired after October 11, 2011.
Pilots Hired By Envoy After October 11, 2011
At the point in time when the first pilot hired after October 11, 2011 is offered a flow through opportunity, if AA is hiring pilots, 35% of all AA new hire training slots, no less than 15 per month, shall go to Envoy pilots. Pilots Hired After DOS
At the point in time when the first pilot hired on or after DOS is offered a flow through opportunity, if AA is hiring pilots, the lesser of (a) 25% of all AA new hire training slots in that calendar year, or (b) five new hire training slots (increased by one for every 125 pilots above the base number of 480 on the Envoy seniority list) times (“x”) the number of calendar months in that calendar year in which AA actually hired pilots, shall go to Envoy pilots.
If AA is hiring pilots, 50% of all AA new hire training slots, no less than 20 per month, shall go to Envoy pilots until a total of 824 Envoy pilots have flowed through to AA.
Effective with the delivery of the first EMB-175 as set forth in Appendix D, and assuming 824 Envoy pilots have not flowed through to AA at that time, 50% of all AA new hire training slots, no less than 30 per month (subject to the 50%), shall go to Envoy pilots until a total of 824 Envoy pilots have flowed through to AA.
“Protected Pilots” Hired By Envoy On or Before October 11, 2011
After a total of 824 Envoy pilots have flowed through to AA, if AA is hiring pilots, 35% of all AA new hire training slots, no less than 25 per month, shall go to Envoy pilots who were placed on the Envoy master seniority list on or before October 11, 2011.
Effective with the delivery of the 40th EMB-175 as set forth in Appendix D, and assuming there are still pilots who were added to the master seniority before October 11, 2011 who have not yet been offered a flow through opportunity, 50% of all AA new hire training slots, no less than 25 per month, shall go to such Envoy pilots, until the point in time when the next pilot on the seniority list to be offered a flow through opportunity was hired after October 11, 2011.
Pilots Hired By Envoy After October 11, 2011
At the point in time when the first pilot hired after October 11, 2011 is offered a flow through opportunity, if AA is hiring pilots, 35% of all AA new hire training slots, no less than 15 per month, shall go to Envoy pilots. Pilots Hired After DOS
At the point in time when the first pilot hired on or after DOS is offered a flow through opportunity, if AA is hiring pilots, the lesser of (a) 25% of all AA new hire training slots in that calendar year, or (b) five new hire training slots (increased by one for every 125 pilots above the base number of 480 on the Envoy seniority list) times (“x”) the number of calendar months in that calendar year in which AA actually hired pilots, shall go to Envoy pilots.
The provisions of Letter 13-04 (“Preferential Bidding System”) will be deemed suspended until delivery of the 40th EMB-175 as set forth in Appendix D. The suspension of Letter 13-04 will end on the date that the 40th EMB-175 is delivered, and within 30 days after such delivery, the PBS Working Group will re-commence the process of negotiating and finalizing a PBS LOA pursuant to the requirements of Letter 13-04. It is the parties' intent to complete PBS implementation as outlined in Letter 13-04 no later than 120 days after delivery of the 41st EMB-175.
12-11-2014, 01:25 PM
#488
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 320 fo
Posts: 160
its really easy to vote NO on this crap deal 10 year deal is way too long the regional landscape will change too much in the next few years. Its not about voting about right now, but for those guys here 18 months plus they have to think about what kind of contract the want to live under if the music stops. Single operating Certificate and PBS at mainline could slow down the hiring next year AAG wants Enovy to be an all E175 operator, contract at compass is not long term so those planes will be back up for grabs. If you voted no before, you have to stick with it or you shoudl have voted yes a long time ago. No point in voting yes now. if the shutdown threat is real, make them put it in writing!!!! AAG keeps coming back, why, we are a depreciating asset for them. If they don't keep us as a viable airline then the stockholders start to wonder why upper managment is making decisions lowering AAG's value
12-11-2014, 01:31 PM
#489
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by Maverick
its really easy to vote NO on this crap deal 10 year deal is way too long the regional landscape will change too much in the next few years. Its not about voting about right now, but for those guys here 18 months plus they have to think about what kind of contract the want to live under if the music stops. Single operating Certificate and PBS at mainline could slow down the hiring next year AAG wants Enovy to be an all E175 operator, contract at compass is not long term so those planes will be back up for grabs. If you voted no before, you have to stick with it or you shoudl have voted yes a long time ago. No point in voting yes now. if the shutdown threat is real, make them put it in writing!!!! AAG keeps coming back, why, we are a depreciating asset for them. If they don't keep us as a viable airline then the stockholders start to wonder why upper managment is making decisions lowering AAG's value
My condolences to most Envoy pilots at least those forced to stay.
12-11-2014, 02:07 PM
#490
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Position: Feito no Brasil, CA
Posts: 833
Originally Posted by HobGoblin
Flow is not how you put it
Current TA
PBS is more like you said
Bottom line, we definitely have had better deals in the past. It's the pilots and the unions fault for not voting yes on those in the past, but now we will vote yes on this to save our ass. I don't think the union and the no voters thought anyone else could staff the flying. Looks like they could.
Current TA
PBS is more like you said
Bottom line, we definitely have had better deals in the past. It's the pilots and the unions fault for not voting yes on those in the past, but now we will vote yes on this to save our ass. I don't think the union and the no voters thought anyone else could staff the flying. Looks like they could.
It wasn't about staffing the flying elsewhere, or at least it shouldn't have been. It was the fact that the company took all the gains and left us holding the bag if anything went wrong. That was the problem with the last TA we voted on. Anybody who voted no solely because they thought nobody would take the flying was not very bright.
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