billyho

I can't say he's a winner because that should be common knowledge! Hell Parker even said that during a Crew News.

He keeps his cost down and the WO'ed Pilots if they want to go to American don't have to worry about trying to get hired there since they've already got the job. So basically both groups kind of win.

Now the airlines with the Problem are the contract carriers that have senior guys that either don't want to go or can't go. There cost will remain high and that will be a problem for them down the road.

Ar Pilot

Have you read the Envoy language? Flows decrease yearly depending on which pilot group you're in after the 824 and the first 175 on property. New hires get 25% or a certain # per month depending on the size of the airline. The 50% flow they're touting right now is not the case at all once you get through the 824.

Skyvector

This is incorrect. After the 824 the flow continues to be 50% once the 40th E175 arrives. Based on flow numbers and aircraft delivery dates the 40th E175 should coincide with the last batch of 824 pilots. Meaning the flow continues at 50% through the entire PP group.

Furthermore, after the PP group has flowed Envoy should stabilize around 1500 pilots more or less. Flowing 25% per class of a 1500 pilot group means it will still take the same amount of time as 50% of a 3,000 pilot group. In any case, once the pilot group is around 1500 AA can't afford to flow at the 50% rate because they would never be able to hire enough pilots to cover that flying. They would need to hire 80 a month just to cover those pilots. A person at the bottom of a 1500 pilot seniority list will still flow in the same time frame-if not sooner-than someone at the bottom of a 3,000 pilot seniority list with 50% flow.

It's shocking how some of you are unable to put 2 and 2 together and need information spoon fed to you.

Ar Pilot

That's nice, except envoy doesn't have 3000 pilots. And at 1500 pilots it's the LESSER of 25% or 13/mo.

FourPutt

The new PSA agreement (not out yet) is a flow with increases based on upgrades for staffing and ironically has language in it that gives PSA another increase in numbers once the 824 finish flowing to AA so in a couple of years PSA will get a large increase in flows as will PDT with their growth and Envoy will start to lose the amount they get per month. Eventually all three wholly owned airlines with have the same flow numbers and time from new hire to flow, candidates will just pick an airline based on crew bases.

Skyvector

Amazing.

When the flow started we were at 3,000 pilots. Currently we are at 2700 or so and still flowing at 50%.

PDTpilotXX

Uhh have you read the PDT language?

PDTpilotXX

AND THIS, FRIENDS, WAS THE GOAL ALL ALONG. 3 airlines. Same size. Similar contracts. Similar flow numbers

Ar Pilot

I'm not talking about PDT. This is an envoy thread. I recommend PDT to majority of my friends looking for their first airline.

I was one of those over 3000 numbers. Majority of the attrition from the last year or so have been guys bailing instead of flowing, but I'll let you have your thread back.

2.5/6, TiT, good time to be an envoy pilot Etc..

PDTpilotXX

But you said PDT flows would decrease... Soooo cool man. Thanks for the referrals?