New Envoy Information
02-29-2016 | 05:28 AM
#1563
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 833
Likes: 0
From: Feito no Brasil, CA
Tweaked -
Almost 40% reserve
Restricting the flow
Failing to provide any actual math behind the numbers they produced last year for this year's upgrades and flow.
Those tweaks have huge impacts on the QOL of ENY pilots and long-term prospects of flow pilots. For instance, the unfortunate pilots that will be cut off due to the less than 50% selection and left to flow after letter T pilots return will have that many months less of VAC accrual, pay, bidding seniority, delayed upgrade, lifetime earnings, on and on. These impacts are felt by ENY FO's every bit as much. The "tweaks" have real and tangible harms to this pilot group. Don't sweep those under the rug by dismissing their problems as "tweaks".
Almost 40% reserve
Restricting the flow
Failing to provide any actual math behind the numbers they produced last year for this year's upgrades and flow.
Those tweaks have huge impacts on the QOL of ENY pilots and long-term prospects of flow pilots. For instance, the unfortunate pilots that will be cut off due to the less than 50% selection and left to flow after letter T pilots return will have that many months less of VAC accrual, pay, bidding seniority, delayed upgrade, lifetime earnings, on and on. These impacts are felt by ENY FO's every bit as much. The "tweaks" have real and tangible harms to this pilot group. Don't sweep those under the rug by dismissing their problems as "tweaks".
02-29-2016 | 05:30 AM
#1564
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
CR700's fluffed up BS numbers have been dispelled many times over the month that he's been posting. Look back and see for yourself (if you can find it sifting through eaglefly's endless rants). I'd like them to be true, but managements actions aren't following their words, so they remain a fairy tale.
02-29-2016 | 05:36 AM
#1565
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 667
Likes: 0
Can you tell me what the latest is on the 2 1/2 year upgrade and 6 year flow? I'm a new hire almost done with training now and in indoc, a guy from management, came in and told us that everything was in motion for us to upgrade in 2 1/2 and flow in 6.
Since then I've been hearing a lot about how this isn't true and that the people flowing over now were hired in 1999 and also that the latest upgrades were hired in 2007. That doesn't really add up to what this guy was telling us. I'm a little disturbed by it and wondering if I maybe made the wrong choice. Compass and Endeavor both had offered me an interview at the time also and I'm a little upset that I didn't even go to the interview now.
Since then I've been hearing a lot about how this isn't true and that the people flowing over now were hired in 1999 and also that the latest upgrades were hired in 2007. That doesn't really add up to what this guy was telling us. I'm a little disturbed by it and wondering if I maybe made the wrong choice. Compass and Endeavor both had offered me an interview at the time also and I'm a little upset that I didn't even go to the interview now.
02-29-2016 | 05:37 AM
#1566
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 833
Likes: 0
From: Feito no Brasil, CA
An "operational necessity" that was stated as an afterthought weeks after they failed to flow 50% into a class. Something else they failed to back up with any published numbers. Must be nice to just be able to say whatever suits one's needs at the time without ever having to provide any proof.
We have no idea what staffing or schedules will be like. We do know staffing won't change much over the summer due to the flow stopping temporarily for the letter T pilots, and as always there's the caveat that we don't know how many will jam up the system for how long.
In the absence of any information countering the status quo, we expect management to progress as it has - less than 50% flow, poor schedules due to whatever their excuses are, and high % of pilots on reserve.
02-29-2016 | 05:41 AM
#1567
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
The sad part is he isnt wrong in his assessemnet of Envoy. His ideas arent original as most of them are regergitated ideas stolen from EL, but his critisism of the company sales man is not incorrect.
02-29-2016 | 05:51 AM
#1568
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Likes: 0
In fact, it looks like we have a new flea who has landed here with the sole point of hopefully blossoming into a fly or overtaking the fly to become an even larger insect and the beat goes on......................
02-29-2016 | 06:04 AM
#1569
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Likes: 0
Don't let the naysayers here get to you. You absolutely made the right choice in selecting Envoy for your airline career. As you were likely told throughout the interview process and in training, we are hiring AA pilots from day one. You obviously have the right stuff as you were selected.
The information I have presented here in this thread is exactly what the company plans to do. Things may be tweaked a bit here and there as for operational necessity, but any good and viable business will do this as necessary. For instance, there are some here that are upset that the company metered the flows to 30 last month. That was simply an operational necessity. As more 175's come online, the training pipeline will get backed up and we will need more pilots in the seats of all our aircraft to cover as these first groups get through the 175 training program. We have also been tasked by the company to operate the CRJ-700's through the end of the year and beyond. This too will require additional pilots. As you can see in this case, operational necessity wins.
Originally Envoy had planned to flow 375 pilots through in 2016. This has been tweaked slightly as former furloughed AA pilots have their last opportunity to come back and must make their decision by May. That said, the company still has to true up and current plans are for more than 300 to flow by the end of the year. Since the 6 year flow was planned at "minimum" flows, this gets us exactly where we need to be.
In the end, it's math. Some on here can't add properly or read a projection that the company has published. You will see posts stating that the current flows are 1999 hires. While that's true, it doesn't account for the remaining pilots on the list and factoring in the company's math and projections. If you were hired in January, I would absolutely expect you to be sitting in AA class no later than January of 2022. Actually, looking at the projections, it very well could be the latter half of 2021.
Also, looking at the planned upgrades for 2016, 250, that factors in and works out to be exactly a 2.5 year upgrade for you.
A piece of advice. It's great to get information anywhere you can, but you'll soon realize that here there are some who cannot stand seeing that Envoy is having great success with the flow. They may have taken a long time to upgrade at Envoy and when they see a new guy come on board and upgrade in 2.5 years, it rubs them the wrong way. It shouldn't, as they are flowing as well, but for some reason it doesn't sit well with them.
Just focus on your training and doing the best job that you can. Envoy has a great contract and you will have good quality of life as you move up the seniority ladder and directly into that seat at AA.
The information I have presented here in this thread is exactly what the company plans to do. Things may be tweaked a bit here and there as for operational necessity, but any good and viable business will do this as necessary. For instance, there are some here that are upset that the company metered the flows to 30 last month. That was simply an operational necessity. As more 175's come online, the training pipeline will get backed up and we will need more pilots in the seats of all our aircraft to cover as these first groups get through the 175 training program. We have also been tasked by the company to operate the CRJ-700's through the end of the year and beyond. This too will require additional pilots. As you can see in this case, operational necessity wins.
Originally Envoy had planned to flow 375 pilots through in 2016. This has been tweaked slightly as former furloughed AA pilots have their last opportunity to come back and must make their decision by May. That said, the company still has to true up and current plans are for more than 300 to flow by the end of the year. Since the 6 year flow was planned at "minimum" flows, this gets us exactly where we need to be.
In the end, it's math. Some on here can't add properly or read a projection that the company has published. You will see posts stating that the current flows are 1999 hires. While that's true, it doesn't account for the remaining pilots on the list and factoring in the company's math and projections. If you were hired in January, I would absolutely expect you to be sitting in AA class no later than January of 2022. Actually, looking at the projections, it very well could be the latter half of 2021.
Also, looking at the planned upgrades for 2016, 250, that factors in and works out to be exactly a 2.5 year upgrade for you.
A piece of advice. It's great to get information anywhere you can, but you'll soon realize that here there are some who cannot stand seeing that Envoy is having great success with the flow. They may have taken a long time to upgrade at Envoy and when they see a new guy come on board and upgrade in 2.5 years, it rubs them the wrong way. It shouldn't, as they are flowing as well, but for some reason it doesn't sit well with them.
Just focus on your training and doing the best job that you can. Envoy has a great contract and you will have good quality of life as you move up the seniority ladder and directly into that seat at AA.
Upgrades : From beginning of this year as a starting point (despite poor Charlie Bucket's situation of 7 months prior), if there are approximately 950 line F/O's and they plan to upgrade 205 this year (2016), that requires 745 F/O's to upgrade by mid 2018 (28 months from now) and that means an average of just over 41 F/O's must upgrade each and every month between January 2017 and June 2018. Even if some leave as they surely will, substantial and consistent monthly upgrades will be required and no such assurances or confirmation have been made by anyone in management.
Please explain and confirm.
Flowthru : Since no flows are projected from Envoy for an undetermined period of time starting in June due to Letter T returns, how can 375 Envoy pilots flow within 2016 ? Provide YOUR math to support that. Based on that and other unknowns, how can ANY valid projection be made spanning 6 years (over half a decade) forward ?
Please explain and confirm.
My original points and no, I didn't conclude that from EL, because back then virtually everyone was high on hopes and dreams and virtually no one there was questioning that which they are now.
Enquiring minds want to know.
Last edited by eaglefly; 02-29-2016 at 06:16 AM.
02-29-2016 | 06:12 AM
#1570
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
If eaglefly would take his nauseating opinions elsewhere, I could see this thread actually being productive. He doesn't even work here. I suggest putting him on ignore.
That said, as the union has already alluded to, expect to hear some good news soon. I've given numbers here before. The math works. All of you doubters should soon clearly see how the 6 year flow is working.
That said, as the union has already alluded to, expect to hear some good news soon. I've given numbers here before. The math works. All of you doubters should soon clearly see how the 6 year flow is working.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
