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Old 04-25-2016, 04:16 PM
  #2561  
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Originally Posted by ag386
Mesa or Envoy. Either are like taking a poison pill. At Mesa at least you'll be building TPIC more quickly. At Envoy you'll be right seat for much longer in addition to likely being on property for 10 years or more before coming close to "flowing." New hires are required to keep the Ponzi scheme flow going. Right now they will tout they are getting 30 or better per month which is still slightly short of what they need. But it's temporary. By June the new hire classes will start to gradually dwindle down to 15 a month again.
Like swallowing the Allegiant pill. Nothing like being treated like a regional pilot, being paid like a regional pilot but in bigger equipment. I hope you really enjoy working for your new employer (although the amount of time you spend talking about your alleged former employer would suggest otherwise), you will be working for them for a long time.
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Old 04-25-2016, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by RyanP
Good. Have fun at Mesa. That sounds like a dream job with a great long term future working over there.

.
This isn't a Mesa thread. I'm just stating that in today's industry why would I want to be at a regional for 10 years before I see the left seat. Mesa might not be around in 10 years and God only knows if I will too.
If your "Dream Job" is slinging gear for AA then get on the party bus at Envoy and ride it for 12 years or more. And, maybe in 20 years from today you'll upgrade into a 319 and that's if that flow is still working for you. Good luck.
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Old 04-25-2016, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Duct Mon
This isn't a Mesa thread. I'm just stating that in today's industry why would I want to be at a regional for 10 years before I see the left seat. Mesa might not be around in 10 years and God only knows if I will too.
If your "Dream Job" is slinging gear for AA then get on the party bus at Envoy and ride it for 12 years or more. And, maybe in 20 years from today you'll upgrade into a 319 and that's if that flow is still working for you. Good luck.
The wait for the left seat will be 6 years by the end of the year.
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Old 04-25-2016, 04:49 PM
  #2564  
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Originally Posted by boiler07
The wait for the left seat will be 6 years by the end of the year.
And those upgrading at yr 6 will be at AA in yr 9.

Not bad, considering most of us will be in our early 30s
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Old 04-25-2016, 04:59 PM
  #2565  
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Originally Posted by Duct Mon
This isn't a Mesa thread. I'm just stating that in today's industry why would I want to be at a regional for 10 years before I see the left seat. Mesa might not be around in 10 years and God only knows if I will too.
If your "Dream Job" is slinging gear for AA then get on the party bus at Envoy and ride it for 12 years or more. And, maybe in 20 years from today you'll upgrade into a 319 and that's if that flow is still working for you. Good luck.
You must get your math from ag386. It will not take an envoy pilot hired today 10 years to flow. The last time the union ran the numbers, it was a 4.5 year upgrade and 6 year flow. With all the new aircraft coming back, that upgrade time will be even lower. Many things can happen in the next few years, but to suggest that an envoy pilot will take 10 years to flow is as preposterous as the 2.5 year upgrade claim.
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Old 04-25-2016, 05:18 PM
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There a reliable source, the union. Ha
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Old 04-25-2016, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by FlameNSky
You must get your math from ag386. It will not take an envoy pilot hired today 10 years to flow. The last time the union ran the numbers, it was a 4.5 year upgrade and 6 year flow. With all the new aircraft coming back, that upgrade time will be even lower. Many things can happen in the next few years, but to suggest that an envoy pilot will take 10 years to flow is as preposterous as the 2.5 year upgrade claim.
Envoy is not netting more airplanes. They might be right this very moment but, As they bring on the new EJET you don't think they'll start parking those tired old bucket of bolt 145's? Keep drinking that Kool Aid brotha and believe what they are telling you.
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Old 04-25-2016, 07:40 PM
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what happens if Envoy can't staff the growth or attrition. What happens if they start to become like Republic and cancel flights. Will AA continue to flow them at 30/month? or will the flows drip to a halt? Just wondering...

There will be a point where flowing will start to cancel flights...it's inevitable. Most likely will happen before new hires get to flow...Think about it.
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Old 04-25-2016, 07:48 PM
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Something to consider when touting 6 year flows: how does an airline keep instructors, check airman, and APDs? While the need to keep attracting new hires to keep the gravy train going has been pointed out many, many times (and is probably the true weak point of any flow program currently), there will be a point where an airline could become a victim of it's own success.
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Old 04-25-2016, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by dfwflyboy
what happens if Envoy can't staff the growth or attrition. What happens if they start to become like Republic and cancel flights. Will AA continue to flow them at 30/month? or will the flows drip to a halt? Just wondering...

There will be a point where flowing will start to cancel flights...it's inevitable. Most likely will happen before new hires get to flow...Think about it.
I'll tell you what happens. Envoy pilots get hired off the street at Delta, United, and American just like pilots at any other regional.
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