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Old 05-04-2016, 01:42 PM
  #2661  
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Originally Posted by daOldMan View Post
This is short sighted. If that happens, there will be furloughs, and that will start from the bottom of the list. It won't matter what equipment you are on. The senior 50 seat guys will just move to the 175.
So if half of a class goes to the 175 and the other goes to the 145, Envoy decides to stop flying the 145 for whatever reason, we'll all get furloughed. Or just the 145 guys?
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Old 05-04-2016, 01:43 PM
  #2662  
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Originally Posted by DraGoon View Post
So if half of a class goes to the 175 and the other goes to the 145, Envoy decides to stop flying the 145 for whatever reason, we'll all get furloughed. Or just the 145 guys?
Furloughs are just based on seniority overall. Base/Equipment do not matter.
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Old 05-04-2016, 01:53 PM
  #2663  
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Originally Posted by daOldMan View Post
Furloughs are just based on seniority overall. Base/Equipment do not matter.
When an airframe type is retired and the pilots are moved to a different equipment, they shuffled into the seniority list in the order of hire. So the possibility of being pushed down from being a line holder to reserve exists?
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Old 05-04-2016, 01:55 PM
  #2664  
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Furlough is bottom up. Last in first out.
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Old 05-04-2016, 01:55 PM
  #2665  
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Originally Posted by DraGoon View Post
When an airframe type is retired and the pilots are moved to a different equipment, they shuffled into the seniority list in the order of hire. So the possibility of being pushed down from being a line holder to reserve exists?
Of course. Same happens when a base closes. The senior guys in another base can push you back on reserve.
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Old 05-04-2016, 01:58 PM
  #2666  
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Originally Posted by daOldMan View Post
Of course. Same happens when a base closes. The senior guys in another base can push you back on reserve.
I change my mind, it's 100% SJS!!
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Old 05-04-2016, 01:59 PM
  #2667  
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Originally Posted by DraGoon View Post
So if half of a class goes to the 175 and the other goes to the 145, Envoy decides to stop flying the 145 for whatever reason, we'll all get furloughed. Or just the 145 guys?
Say a furlough affects half the class. It would be in seniority order of the class. Doesn't matter what equipment. So self preservation would be to take the first available class doesn't matter what airframe.
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Old 05-04-2016, 02:26 PM
  #2668  
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Originally Posted by DraGoon View Post
When an airframe type is retired and the pilots are moved to a different equipment, they shuffled into the seniority list in the order of hire. So the possibility of being pushed down from being a line holder to reserve exists?
In most situations, the others are correct in that it's overall seniority that protects you. The one situation it may not is a fragmentation of the airline by fleet type. If say, Envoy gets dissected in the future and a fleet type (say for example, the E-145's or CRJ-700's or both in a 3-way) is transferred to another carrier, that fleet types current pilots go with the aircraft, but have transfer rights back to the core carrier with their previous seniority when vacancies occur.
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Old 05-04-2016, 02:31 PM
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I think there is a huge lack of understanding of how all this stuff works with seniority, relative seniority and Line vs Reserve. It's kinda frustrating being in class with new hires that are more focused on finding out about bid packs and schedules than learning the airplane.

I'm not sure why people are so fixated on "when can I hold a line" also. There is a big lack of understanding from CFI to Airline schedules, relative seniority and QOL. With the way out contract is here, a person on RSV can have a MUCH better QOL and more money making potential for far less work if you are senior on RSV and Local (non commuter). You can never work and get paid, you can choose what you want to fly daily from Open time, if you want it and are senior enough, you can choose to never proffer for flying on reserve days and just do OT on days off bringing your guarantee way up. There is a lot of options with some seniority on reserve.

I'm not sure about others QOL defnition, but for me being on RSV and flying ZERO to 20 hours for the month (by choice) is WAY better than having some terrible line, just for the sake of holding a line and flying everyday and being gone in some crap hotel all the time when I could sit at home, go fishing or play golf and get paid the same thing.

Reserve "can" be a good thing, depending on what you want, which new hires don't understand at all. You could potentially get paid 75 hours to do pretty much nothing all month. But it's just the same question over and over.. "How fast can I hold a line"???? Because they are conditioned to think Line good/Reserve bad. Which is not necessarily true.

I will never bid a line here again, by choice.

I understand some people want a schedule to commute or get more hours or whatever but just saying, senior Reserve on certain fleets here can be the best scam going here, depending on what you may want.

Last edited by RyanP; 05-04-2016 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 05-04-2016, 03:30 PM
  #2670  
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Originally Posted by RyanP View Post
I think there is a huge lack of understanding of how all this stuff works with seniority, relative seniority and Line vs Reserve. It's kinda frustrating being in class with new hires that are more focused on finding out about bid packs and schedules than learning the airplane.

I'm not sure why people are so fixated on "when can I hold a line" also. There is a big lack of understanding from CFI to Airline schedules, relative seniority and QOL. With the way out contract is here, a person on RSV can have a MUCH better QOL and more money making potential for far less work if you are senior on RSV and Local (non commuter). You can never work and get paid, you can choose what you want to fly daily from Open time, if you want it and are senior enough, you can choose to never proffer for flying on reserve days and just do OT on days off bringing your guarantee way up. There is a lot of options with some seniority on reserve.

I'm not sure about others QOL defnition, but for me being on RSV and flying ZERO to 20 hours for the month (by choice) is WAY better than having some terrible line, just for the sake of holding a line and flying everyday and being gone in some crap hotel all the time when I could sit at home, go fishing or play golf and get paid the same thing.

Reserve "can" be a good thing, depending on what you want, which new hires don't understand at all. You could potentially get paid 75 hours to do pretty much nothing all month. But it's just the same question over and over.. "How fast can I hold a line"???? Because they are conditioned to think Line good/Reserve bad. Which is not necessarily true.

I will never bid a line here again, by choice.

I understand some people want a schedule to commute or get more hours or whatever but just saying, senior Reserve on certain fleets here can be the best scam going here, depending on what you may want.
I did reserve in base for 3.5 years. It was nice to get paid not to work, but I hated not really knowing my schedule, being at the mercy of CS.

I'm on 5th year FO pay, been bidding lines all all this year now. I've made 20k through April. Add in the 10k bonus this year, That's not a bad pace. Picking up OT is easier with a line also. I don't feel like I've been busting my but too much. But yeah, getting paid not to work at all is nice too, if you don't mind the invisible handcuffs.
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