New Envoy Information
04-26-2016 | 01:32 PM
#2661
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2015
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04-26-2016 | 01:40 PM
#2663
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
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One could argue the more pilots they keep getting the more flying they will keep getting and the more pilots they will get. A revolving door is in eagles history. If the flow works it'll pay off. The have alot of cards left to play still and it will take years for this to play out. They can merge envoy and piedmont short term, they can merge psa long term. They can buy someone. They can push someone into ch 11. They can just bring more flying to mainline. They can increase aa new hire class % to flow and stop any hopes of off the street pushing guys to the wo. They can issue hard seniority numbers. They honestly could give every envoy pilot 50k a year extra. The regional sector is in deep doo doo and trust me envoy isn't the one in danger for some time.
Without those pilots and consistantly, Envoy will shrink.
04-26-2016 | 01:41 PM
#2664
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 894
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AAG will just have to do what it takes to attract them. 2 centrally located bases isn't a very good start for most people. Neither is the past couple years of negativity. Things have turned for the better this year though, lots of positive news for once around here since January, and apparently something they are doing is starting to work because 35 new hires came here this month. This is the highest it has been by far in several years and only 1 short of Endeavor for the month. (Which pays substantially more with their bonuses). Actually we would be tied with Endeavor for the month if that guy that walked out talked to someone before walking out. His base choice would have been accommodated.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...-regional.html
Last edited by RyanP; 04-26-2016 at 01:53 PM.
04-26-2016 | 02:09 PM
#2666
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,865
Likes: 115
I agree with you on one point. The regional sector is in deep doo doo. That's for sure.
I don't agree that pilots are going to be flocking to Envoy. One, management is too stupid to really fix the problem. Adding more band aids until the wound ruptures and the patient dies is their chosen course of action as proved over and over in the past.
There aren't enough pilots out there in total right now to fill the numbers Envoy needs going forward if this flow is really going to work as advertised. They picked up a few extra with this latest gimmick of bonuses and it appears that they are now all in with Part 91 pilots as well. It's definitely a sign that things are getting desperate in the hunt for cheap labor to staff AA's regional feed. Next month, they might get a few extra with the extension of bonuses to Part 91 guys, but that isn't going to last. By July or August at the latest, the hiring numbers per month will again be in the teens.
Envoy is going to flow out the 824 and at that point you will likely see a "re-adjustment" from the company. The union will work hand in hand with management to bring you this "enhancement" to the flow. For a lesser percentage of the flow with an "at the company's discretion" disclaimer thrown in, you might see some relaxation of the reserve rules, a slight bump in pay and maybe a Miami base and better commutability with the lines.
I don't agree that pilots are going to be flocking to Envoy. One, management is too stupid to really fix the problem. Adding more band aids until the wound ruptures and the patient dies is their chosen course of action as proved over and over in the past.
There aren't enough pilots out there in total right now to fill the numbers Envoy needs going forward if this flow is really going to work as advertised. They picked up a few extra with this latest gimmick of bonuses and it appears that they are now all in with Part 91 pilots as well. It's definitely a sign that things are getting desperate in the hunt for cheap labor to staff AA's regional feed. Next month, they might get a few extra with the extension of bonuses to Part 91 guys, but that isn't going to last. By July or August at the latest, the hiring numbers per month will again be in the teens.
Envoy is going to flow out the 824 and at that point you will likely see a "re-adjustment" from the company. The union will work hand in hand with management to bring you this "enhancement" to the flow. For a lesser percentage of the flow with an "at the company's discretion" disclaimer thrown in, you might see some relaxation of the reserve rules, a slight bump in pay and maybe a Miami base and better commutability with the lines.
Thats ok, you also work for a desperate airline.
04-26-2016 | 03:22 PM
#2668
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
The "junkie" analogy is not really true because so many of us at ENY are so underutilized.
I mean i am not anywhere near the top on reserve and have flown 25 hrs for april. That is it. So many lines are under credit still. Getting more flying back right now should make our schedules better. So the needing EVEN MORE pilots right now then predicted isn't really true but the more the better and merrier.
(That is if the flying coming back is midday blocks. That is really where we are getting hosed from and need improvement )
I mean i am not anywhere near the top on reserve and have flown 25 hrs for april. That is it. So many lines are under credit still. Getting more flying back right now should make our schedules better. So the needing EVEN MORE pilots right now then predicted isn't really true but the more the better and merrier.
(That is if the flying coming back is midday blocks. That is really where we are getting hosed from and need improvement )
04-26-2016 | 03:29 PM
#2669
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,215
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From: Capt
As long as places like Skywest are hiring 60-70+ a month and 800 over the last year there is PLENTY of new hires out there. This shortage is not as dire as people claim.
04-26-2016 | 03:38 PM
#2670
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
I'm not going to quote any long posts for the sake of brevity. But what I find wrong with many of these grand predictions of doom and gloom, is most folks assume regional pilots will continue to be treated badly in the future. They are taking the current paradigm of how regional pilots are treated, and assuming nothing will change.
I believe a shift is already taking place and will continue, where regional pilots are valued much more by their mainline partners. We've already seen incremental increases, which on their own aren't much, but taken together, show a trend.
Things will only get better at the wholly owned regionals. Their mainline partners have deep pockets and will do what it takes to keep their planes in the air. Stopping the flow would temporarily keep more planes in the air, but would be a disastrous long term strategy. AAG knows this, and will do what it takes to meet their obligations.
Independent regionals may have a different path. They will have to negotiate their way forward. And although their lift is valuable, it can be more difficult to guarantee stability. It will be very interesting to see what Republic looks like at the end of their bankruptcy. It could be the first one of many, where pilots are not harmed, because they are too valuable to the future of the operation.
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I believe a shift is already taking place and will continue, where regional pilots are valued much more by their mainline partners. We've already seen incremental increases, which on their own aren't much, but taken together, show a trend.
Things will only get better at the wholly owned regionals. Their mainline partners have deep pockets and will do what it takes to keep their planes in the air. Stopping the flow would temporarily keep more planes in the air, but would be a disastrous long term strategy. AAG knows this, and will do what it takes to meet their obligations.
Independent regionals may have a different path. They will have to negotiate their way forward. And although their lift is valuable, it can be more difficult to guarantee stability. It will be very interesting to see what Republic looks like at the end of their bankruptcy. It could be the first one of many, where pilots are not harmed, because they are too valuable to the future of the operation.
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