New Envoy Information
03-01-2016 | 03:13 PM
#1661
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 699
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03-01-2016 | 03:21 PM
#1663
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 955
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From: CL65
03-01-2016 | 03:21 PM
#1664
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 687
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Sounds like something those, only looking out for themselves, captains would say. Why would they help out people making a barely livable wage? Thats why they jumped ship to PSA in the first place, quick upgrades at the expense of others. Just another day in the life of PSA only have their own interest at heart.
03-01-2016 | 03:22 PM
#1665
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 843
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From: DHC-8 100/300
03-01-2016 | 03:23 PM
#1666
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 290
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Why haven't you flowed Ric?
I'm too old to flow. My days are numbered.
As for your assertion: I'll help you out a little - I highly doubt the average envoy FO hired last year would have the ability to get hired at JetBlue. I just ran some numbers though.
Using APCs payscales - let's assume Pilot A does a 4 year career at envoy and leaves for JetBlue. He upgraded at envoy and received CA pay for year 4. He then went to JetBlue on the airbus and upgraded on the airbus, taking CA pay on year 4(yes JetBlue is upgrading at year 3 for the foreseeable future). Pilot A finishes his 25 year career at jetBlue(measured from the start of is employment at envoy).
Pilot B drinks the koolaid and does a 6 year stint in envoy prison. Same thing - upgrades on the E145 at year 4 pay. He then goes to AA at 6 years. He is an FO for 10 years(I think I'm being gracious here. Current upgrade is what 17?). He spends 8 years on a narrowbody and goes to a wide body for 2. He received year 11 pay as a narrowbody CA. His last 4 years of 25 are spent as a widebody CA.
Guess how much more pilot B made? $250k. What I didn't include is profit sharing. This year JetBlue paid 2 months worth. American paid none. That tends to almost even it out.
Lots can change in a 25 year career. Right now Pilot A is making $183/hr on year 4 CA pay getting pic, while Pilot B is making year 2 FO pay at AA $116/hr, after doing 2 extra years in envoy jail.
All this for the "promise" of a flow that is proven in the past to never work? A flow of 2.5 and 6 that you and I both know isn't realistic, IF it works.
Go for the SURE thing right NOW. Don't roll the dice on a "promise" from people that care about no one and have zero conscience.
I'm too old to flow. My days are numbered.
As for your assertion: I'll help you out a little - I highly doubt the average envoy FO hired last year would have the ability to get hired at JetBlue. I just ran some numbers though.
Using APCs payscales - let's assume Pilot A does a 4 year career at envoy and leaves for JetBlue. He upgraded at envoy and received CA pay for year 4. He then went to JetBlue on the airbus and upgraded on the airbus, taking CA pay on year 4(yes JetBlue is upgrading at year 3 for the foreseeable future). Pilot A finishes his 25 year career at jetBlue(measured from the start of is employment at envoy).
Pilot B drinks the koolaid and does a 6 year stint in envoy prison. Same thing - upgrades on the E145 at year 4 pay. He then goes to AA at 6 years. He is an FO for 10 years(I think I'm being gracious here. Current upgrade is what 17?). He spends 8 years on a narrowbody and goes to a wide body for 2. He received year 11 pay as a narrowbody CA. His last 4 years of 25 are spent as a widebody CA.
Guess how much more pilot B made? $250k. What I didn't include is profit sharing. This year JetBlue paid 2 months worth. American paid none. That tends to almost even it out.
Lots can change in a 25 year career. Right now Pilot A is making $183/hr on year 4 CA pay getting pic, while Pilot B is making year 2 FO pay at AA $116/hr, after doing 2 extra years in envoy jail.
All this for the "promise" of a flow that is proven in the past to never work? A flow of 2.5 and 6 that you and I both know isn't realistic, IF it works.
Go for the SURE thing right NOW. Don't roll the dice on a "promise" from people that care about no one and have zero conscience.
I mentioned to you guys earlier. Be patient. Still more good info coming....
03-01-2016 | 03:24 PM
#1668
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 490
Likes: 0
Just relax. Remember how AAG turned Envoy's pathway program into the cadet program shared by all three WOs. Your time will come. No need to throw stones in the meantime.
03-01-2016 | 03:30 PM
#1669
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 833
Likes: 0
From: Feito no Brasil, CA
Voted? Who voted? You mean the MEC, because the pilots certainly had no say in this.
There are probably a few sour captains here who would want a chunk of money for whatever reason. I'm sure there are a few that felt they spent way too long as an FO and might deserve some. But one thing most everyone here agrees on is the fact that none of the company's feel-good numbers work if they don't have FO's in line to fill the vacated CA seats. Nice touch to add some dosh for recruits with 121 time as well.
It's about damn time.
Those alter-Eagles can say whatever they want, but these retention bonuses have been needed for a while. There's no point in offering retention bonuses to captains who are going to flow or get picked up by majors much more quickly than FOs. We need CA's to leave to make room for upgrades, not sit around collecting more cash.
*I'm a captain here, so it's not some FO griping about the guys blocking his way.
There are probably a few sour captains here who would want a chunk of money for whatever reason. I'm sure there are a few that felt they spent way too long as an FO and might deserve some. But one thing most everyone here agrees on is the fact that none of the company's feel-good numbers work if they don't have FO's in line to fill the vacated CA seats. Nice touch to add some dosh for recruits with 121 time as well.
It's about damn time.
Those alter-Eagles can say whatever they want, but these retention bonuses have been needed for a while. There's no point in offering retention bonuses to captains who are going to flow or get picked up by majors much more quickly than FOs. We need CA's to leave to make room for upgrades, not sit around collecting more cash.
*I'm a captain here, so it's not some FO griping about the guys blocking his way.
03-01-2016 | 03:43 PM
#1670
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
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