New Envoy Information
03-28-2016, 01:45 PM
#2041
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 540
Originally Posted by Eaglepilot84
While I appreciate the opinion of someone outside of the 121 world, I respectfully disagree. If you've read these forums enough, you would know that it's not current envoy employees who bash the company. It's former employees who are bitter at being chewed up and spit out by AMR/AAG the past couple of years AND pilots from other companies who are trying to disgrace a rival company in the hopes of preventing new-hires from going there. It's funny how others care so much of our flow that they feel the need to bash it! Meanwhile, on the jumpsuit, many tell us that they wish they had it...I wonder why?
There's really no more to it. I don't know of any "fake posters" by management on here (although conspiracy theorists will tell you otherwise.) The flow agreements are not contingent on new-hires coming here (again, the conspiracy theorists will tell you otherwise.) That's all. There's plenty of credible information on this website from people who are familiar with certain companies and plenty of BS information from people who are clueless. You don't see me posting all over Republic, Skywest, TSA, GoJet's page do you? Take a guess why...
There's really no more to it. I don't know of any "fake posters" by management on here (although conspiracy theorists will tell you otherwise.) The flow agreements are not contingent on new-hires coming here (again, the conspiracy theorists will tell you otherwise.) That's all. There's plenty of credible information on this website from people who are familiar with certain companies and plenty of BS information from people who are clueless. You don't see me posting all over Republic, Skywest, TSA, GoJet's page do you? Take a guess why...
03-28-2016, 01:53 PM
#2042
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 787
Originally Posted by DraGoon
From the perspective of a new hire, these forums hurt Envoy's reputation. I truly understand that this is a place where discussions are to be had, but after reading the countless posts of unfettered bickering about ... nothing, it really makes Envoy look bad to the unknowing.
I work at one of Envoys partner schools, we also have partnerships setup with other airlines and I can tell that by far Envoy has the worst reputation in the eyes of my peers. Because we see a lot of posts on here saying Envoy should increase their pay, lower their reserve time etc. to get new hires in the door. Well, word on the "streets" no one wants to go there is because as a pilot group/company the image that you put forth on here is that of a dysfunctional angry group. I do not mean to imply that but to us outsiders (CFIs and other potential hires) it looks like a hot mess none of us wants a part of.
Let's be honest, this is the generation of "what can you do for me". The contract airline that gives up the goods will get the newbs.
- Higher pay
- Shiny Jets
-A cool base or extremely commutable
-And a good attitude toward a dumb new guy
Yes in that order, we're ( as a whole) shallow.
This generation needs to be hugged all the way up to inking the deal. After that do what you like to them. Just take away their social networks if you're gonna treat them bad
But I digress. Bottom line most of the prospective hires come to forums like this to get information. We'll read 20 pages of posts and get 1 to 2 pieces of useful information and 75 posts of how the flow won't work, how crappy it is to work there, how your contract is violated on a regular basis and how you can't get new hires. I personally want to work for Envoy. I have met a few of your pilots, one a good friend and think very highly of. But if this forum is where you choose to air your dirty laundry you're only hurting yourselves. I don't blame management for putting fake posters on here. They may be the only reason you're getting the 5-6 new hires and not fewer. Additionally, if I understand it correctly, the only way the flow works is to get new people through the door. If it were me and I worked at Envoy, I'd be cheerleading the heck out of it just to move my seniority number. And then once I got them in there, change the culture from a poo poo on the company, to do the best you can with what you have. Not that you're not doing that now. But to the layman reading these forums you are.
My $0.02
I work at one of Envoys partner schools, we also have partnerships setup with other airlines and I can tell that by far Envoy has the worst reputation in the eyes of my peers. Because we see a lot of posts on here saying Envoy should increase their pay, lower their reserve time etc. to get new hires in the door. Well, word on the "streets" no one wants to go there is because as a pilot group/company the image that you put forth on here is that of a dysfunctional angry group. I do not mean to imply that but to us outsiders (CFIs and other potential hires) it looks like a hot mess none of us wants a part of.
Let's be honest, this is the generation of "what can you do for me". The contract airline that gives up the goods will get the newbs.
- Higher pay
- Shiny Jets
-A cool base or extremely commutable
-And a good attitude toward a dumb new guy
Yes in that order, we're ( as a whole) shallow.
This generation needs to be hugged all the way up to inking the deal. After that do what you like to them. Just take away their social networks if you're gonna treat them bad
But I digress. Bottom line most of the prospective hires come to forums like this to get information. We'll read 20 pages of posts and get 1 to 2 pieces of useful information and 75 posts of how the flow won't work, how crappy it is to work there, how your contract is violated on a regular basis and how you can't get new hires. I personally want to work for Envoy. I have met a few of your pilots, one a good friend and think very highly of. But if this forum is where you choose to air your dirty laundry you're only hurting yourselves. I don't blame management for putting fake posters on here. They may be the only reason you're getting the 5-6 new hires and not fewer. Additionally, if I understand it correctly, the only way the flow works is to get new people through the door. If it were me and I worked at Envoy, I'd be cheerleading the heck out of it just to move my seniority number. And then once I got them in there, change the culture from a poo poo on the company, to do the best you can with what you have. Not that you're not doing that now. But to the layman reading these forums you are.
My $0.02
Otherwise, I agree.
03-28-2016, 01:58 PM
#2043
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 540
Originally Posted by Skyvector
Great post. But to be fair, 95% of the crap thrown Envoy's way on this forum is from people who don't work here. Either never have or haven't in a while.
Otherwise, I agree.
Otherwise, I agree.
03-28-2016, 02:01 PM
#2044
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 787
^ Case and point. The flow is working better than advertised, kid. New hires? Shake your magic 8 ball up a couple more times and tell us how many new hires we will have next month. And the month after that. And so on...
And you don't have to have an IQ over 70 to know that accepting a job at allegiant is the dumbest move on earth. So congratulations, kid!
And you don't have to have an IQ over 70 to know that accepting a job at allegiant is the dumbest move on earth. So congratulations, kid!
03-28-2016, 02:03 PM
#2045
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,202
Meanwhile the last vacancy BID first upgrades starts in April 7! The last guy goes into training in first week of Oct.
Only 6 months for a 87 upgrade Vacancy Bid. Seems than they are about to send another vacancy soon. It never takes them less than 7 days after running the bid to get the flow plan out.
Only 6 months for a 87 upgrade Vacancy Bid. Seems than they are about to send another vacancy soon. It never takes them less than 7 days after running the bid to get the flow plan out.
03-28-2016, 02:07 PM
#2046
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 540
Originally Posted by PilotJ3
Meanwhile the last vacancy BID first upgrades starts in April 7! The last guy goes into training in first week of Oct.
Only 6 months for a 87 upgrade Vacancy Bid. Seems than they are about to send another vacancy soon. It never takes them less than 7 days after running the bid to get the flow plan out.
Only 6 months for a 87 upgrade Vacancy Bid. Seems than they are about to send another vacancy soon. It never takes them less than 7 days after running the bid to get the flow plan out.
03-28-2016, 02:13 PM
#2047
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by DraGoon
From the perspective of a new hire, these forums hurt Envoy's reputation. I truly understand that this is a place where discussions are to be had, but after reading the countless posts of unfettered bickering about ... nothing, it really makes Envoy look bad to the unknowing.
I work at one of Envoys partner schools, we also have partnerships setup with other airlines and I can tell that by far Envoy has the worst reputation in the eyes of my peers. Because we see a lot of posts on here saying Envoy should increase their pay, lower their reserve time etc. to get new hires in the door. Well, word on the "streets" no one wants to go there is because as a pilot group/company the image that you put forth on here is that of a dysfunctional angry group. I do not mean to imply that but to us outsiders (CFIs and other potential hires) it looks like a hot mess none of us wants a part of.
I work at one of Envoys partner schools, we also have partnerships setup with other airlines and I can tell that by far Envoy has the worst reputation in the eyes of my peers. Because we see a lot of posts on here saying Envoy should increase their pay, lower their reserve time etc. to get new hires in the door. Well, word on the "streets" no one wants to go there is because as a pilot group/company the image that you put forth on here is that of a dysfunctional angry group. I do not mean to imply that but to us outsiders (CFIs and other potential hires) it looks like a hot mess none of us wants a part of.
Originally Posted by DraGroon
Let's be honest, this is the generation of "what can you do for me". The contract airline that gives up the goods will get the newbs.
- Higher pay
- Shiny Jets
-A cool base or extremely commutable
-And a good attitude toward a dumb new guy
Yes in that order, we're ( as a whole) shallow.
This generation needs to be hugged all the way up to inking the deal. After that do what you like to them. Just take away their social networks if you're gonna treat them bad
- Higher pay
- Shiny Jets
-A cool base or extremely commutable
-And a good attitude toward a dumb new guy
Yes in that order, we're ( as a whole) shallow.
This generation needs to be hugged all the way up to inking the deal. After that do what you like to them. Just take away their social networks if you're gonna treat them bad
You can't fix stupid.
Originally Posted by DraGoon
But I digress. Bottom line most of the prospective hires come to forums like this to get information. We'll read 20 pages of posts and get 1 to 2 pieces of useful information and 75 posts of how the flow won't work, how crappy it is to work there, how your contract is violated on a regular basis and how you can't get new hires. I personally want to work for Envoy. I have met a few of your pilots, one a good friend and think very highly of. But if this forum is where you choose to air your dirty laundry you're only hurting yourselves. I don't blame management for putting fake posters on here. They may be the only reason you're getting the 5-6 new hires and not fewer. Additionally, if I understand it correctly, the only way the flow works is to get new people through the door. If it were me and I worked at Envoy, I'd be cheerleading the heck out of it just to move my seniority number. And then once I got them in there, change the culture from a poo poo on the company, to do the best you can with what you have. Not that you're not doing that now. But to the layman reading these forums you are.
My $0.02
My $0.02
As usual, it's just my opinion, but I think the best thing for Envoy on this forum is to simply be like the other regionals (why must it be so different ?) and go with the philosophy that if there isn't much good to say, to not say anything at all and it will mute a lot of this so-called negativity that you claim is the crux of Envoy's problems. If half as much effort was put into repairing their relationship with their pilots as is pumping B.S. into this forum, I think they'd have twice as many new-hires in class. Of course, being a systemic issue not just about Envoy, but about the regional industry, the days of having enough pilots are over. As the legacy retirements ramp up over the next few years, this sub-segment of the industry is destined for a complete change to be virtually unrecognizable from the present.
03-28-2016, 02:21 PM
#2048
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by Skyvector
Great post. But to be fair, 95% of the crap thrown Envoy's way on this forum is from people who don't work here. Either never have or haven't in a while.
Otherwise, I agree.
Otherwise, I agree.
Had you and a few others not come here on a sales jihad and pumped all that B.S. onto the forum, there would have been nothing to dispute and Envoy would 'look" no different then others here. If you truly want to help your airline, why don't you check your ego's and simply let Envoy be Envoy whatever Envoy wants itself to be. Only Envoy can make Envoy what it not only is, but how it's perceived, not anyone on this forum and your clan does more harm then good IMO. I mean honestly, has your 6-9 month sales jihad really helped all that much or hurt ?
03-28-2016, 02:27 PM
#2049
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by JackieChan
Love it! I couldn't agree more! And not just towards Envoy but lots of other regionals as well.
I know some pilots have the belief that management realizes the pilots are the best PR for the company (good and bad) and they have a duty to voice their opinions to keep new hires away until their pay/QOL/whatever is improved. That's just ridiculous and I think management as well as new hires would respond positively to an improvement in the mood and quality of discussions on forums.
I know some pilots have the belief that management realizes the pilots are the best PR for the company (good and bad) and they have a duty to voice their opinions to keep new hires away until their pay/QOL/whatever is improved. That's just ridiculous and I think management as well as new hires would respond positively to an improvement in the mood and quality of discussions on forums.
I'd argue the latter. All that occurs is another generation of clueless pilots wanders into the path of a well known rogue mack truck because well-known "dirty laundry" was swept under the rug. That's NOT going to solve the regional industry problem just like censorship isn't solving any issues in China. This industry is in the situation it is in exactly BECAUSE of such a dysfunctional philosophy and new efforts at making it more covert won't solve anything.
03-28-2016, 02:31 PM
#2050
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 787
Originally Posted by eaglefly
Not surprised by this post at all. IMO, YOU (and your chums) ARE the problem here regarding Envoy and whether you accept it or not, have done more harm to Envoy then any pilot not working there or even working there and posting at odds with your agenda. If pilots want to hear what other Envoy pilots are saying good, bad and ugly, just go to EL and get it straight from the horse's mouth. From my perspective though, if they think it's bad here, going there and hearing Envoy pilots themselves isn't going to improve their perception.
Had you and a few others not come here on a sales jihad and pumped all that B.S. onto the forum, there would have been nothing to dispute and Envoy would 'look" no different then others here. If you truly want to help your airline, why don't you check your ego's and simply let Envoy be Envoy whatever Envoy wants itself to be. Only Envoy can make Envoy what it not only is, but how it's perceived, not anyone on this forum and your clan does more harm then good IMO. I mean honestly, has your 6-9 month sales jihad really helped all that much or hurt ?
Had you and a few others not come here on a sales jihad and pumped all that B.S. onto the forum, there would have been nothing to dispute and Envoy would 'look" no different then others here. If you truly want to help your airline, why don't you check your ego's and simply let Envoy be Envoy whatever Envoy wants itself to be. Only Envoy can make Envoy what it not only is, but how it's perceived, not anyone on this forum and your clan does more harm then good IMO. I mean honestly, has your 6-9 month sales jihad really helped all that much or hurt ?
If you didn't post every 2 minutes speculation and false information about a company you don't work for, maybe some of us wouldn't have to always counter you. If I decided to jump into a random airline thread like say Skywest and just start speculating about how bad things are going to be for them...I would fully expect their pilots to strike right back at me.
So you don't like that we post back at you when you always talk crap about our airline? Well once again, I invite you to blow it out your rear.
But in the end, there is one thing I can say about this and every other forum. Nothing matters over the long run. In the short run sure, maybe a few new hires will be scared away by false crap posted by people like you.
But pilots have very short memories. Look at Endeavor. A very short time ago they were considered the worst airline on the planet and everyone hated them. Now they are filling classes. Funny, isn't it? That's how things work. Tomorrow things turn around at Envoy and nobody will remember what any of us had to say, good or bad.
Hate to break it to you, but your million posts on APC don't matter. They won't be archived for future generations or put into the National Library. Your entire existence is a waste of time and AA pilots are sorry the Envoy flow was ever extended to you. Yes, they have said that...want me to link to their posts talking about you again? I would be happy to.
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