Originally Posted by Skyvector

Big things are happening for Envoy. Management held a Q&A session today and provided the following information (borrowed from someone else's notes of the meeting):

Revised Flow/Upgrade numbers - AA has 600 newhire slots planned for 2016. 1500 AA newhires over the next 2 years is the plan.

300 Envoy flows for next year. 750 Envoy flows over the next two years alone.

205 upgrades planned now. Those are yet to be awarded and will be in class before the year (2016) is out.

New hire upgrade/flow to AA now planned at 2.5/5.5 years.

Additional 175's - Options are on the table, along with acquiring other existing airframes.

iPads - iPads should be coming our way around March or April and will be individually mailed to the pilot's home address. We are currently fully EFB (ipad) approved but pilots have to provide their own ipads. Starting next year the company will be providing pilots with their own ipads for use.

Envoy shooting for 345 new hires next year. (PM current Envoy pilots for help getting an interview sooner rather than later)

Again, these notes are not mine but from others who attended the meeting. Whoever else was there please add to this information anything else you may have.

Originally Posted by ag386

Guess this flow comment was total BS from the company. They are good at that. Blasting out a great sounding pack of lies to keep guys around and gullible new saps coming in the door.

Revised flow estimate. 180 for 2016. A far cry from 300.

Originally Posted by SayAlt

Amazingly, people still believe what Obama says is true, why should Doug Parker and AAG mgmt be any different?

Originally Posted by penaltybox

Damn that hurts, SayAlt. I'm one of those people.

Originally Posted by Eaglepilot84

I don't understand your argument at all. On one hand you say the 145 is a dying fleet so it wouldn't make sense for a new-hire to go on it. On another hand you're saying that the 145 isn't going anywhere so there is no need to worry about furlough.

So is your priority when choosing an airline flying a certain airplane or getting a seniority number asap that allows you to move up the list? If your priority is a certain airframe (the 175) I'm telling you right now that it's wrong wrong wrong.

As for me, I've flown 3 different airframes during my time here and at no point did I choose to transfer any aircraft due to SJS. All were due to quality of life and money. Heck, I could've started on the 700 at 23 years old but opted for the ATR.

I thought the whole "SJS" was more blown out of proportion then it really is, but apparently I was wrong. Oh well, I guess you new guys know sometime I don't.

Originally Posted by PilotCrusader

What kind of "bug smashers" have you flown? How many hours?

Originally Posted by DraGoon

Exactly, so why fly a 20 yr old jet when you can fly a 1 yr old jet for the same pay. Outside of losing out on seniority, which is a huge deal, why not fly the new jet. I see a lot of posts on hear about SJS. All things remaining equal, a new hire presented with the opportunity to Fly the E175 vs E145 who is going to choose the E145 other than to get a specific base. Plus the E145 40-50 seat jet that most airlines are looking to get rid of, including Envoy, is a dying airframe. Doesnt Envoy have like 20 E140s sitting in the desert and plans to transfer some to another WO? Part of the reason Republic went into bankruptcy is because they wanted to get rid of their older birds, q400s and E145s because they are having a problem staffing them. Even a noob like me can see that. Should the airline staff 10 50 seaters or 7 70 seaters? Between the E175, C-Series and MRJ any and every 50 seater is nearing its end of useful service.

Originally Posted by DraGoon

Hypothetically speaking, you're right, no argument from me on that point. However right now we are not talking hypothetical. In the current market the likelihood of that happening are slim at best. Envoy is not going to park all of their E145's before a new hire is able to gain enough seniority to be furloughed (worst case). With the deliveries on the remaining 40 EJets I think their are about 12 in revenue service now, thats ~280 FO's that will be needed to staff. I think a new hire going into the Ejet right now would be pretty safe.

As for your quitting suggestion, that's a bit of a stretch as well. Not all noobs are as shallow as you think they are. Some of us understand, pecking order, totem poles and seniority. Just because we didn't spend 15+ years at Eagle paying our dues doesn't mean we haven't spent 24+ years paying our dues elsewhere.

Originally Posted by eaglefly

You do realize that absent a fragmentation scenario, that the death of those "dying airplanes" would likely result in those senior bumping you down or even out of the 1 year old jet, yes ?

For example, if they started parking 145's in DFW and had an excess number of more senior "dead jet" pilots they needed to trim they would most likely be displacing into your status. Seniority is the name of the game and if say you were displaced out of DFW 175 to something you could hold, say ORD 145, what would you do ?

I suppose you could then turn your nose up and quit, but wouldn't that have just been a waste of months or years ? It almost sounds like there are a group of journeyman E-175 pinch-hitters floating around the industry shopping for E-175 seats wherever. If that's all that matters, those are sone screwed up priorities that will come back to haunt you later, if you ask me.