New Envoy Information
08-31-2016 | 02:32 PM
#4781
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
From: 737
Based on the seniority list from mid July
2001-84
No hiring 9/3/01-1/3/04
2004-104
2005-58
2006-106
2007-222
2008-124
No hiring 5/12/08-3/15/10
2010-98
2011-271
2013/current-352
The "824" group that gets to carry their vacation and sick accrual rates and get 50% metered to 30/month comes to an end sometime early summer 2017 and the switches to the protected pilot group which flows at 50% metered to 25/month. That agreement essentially covers pilots hired through 2011. From 2013 onward it comes out to around 15/month, the agreements are posted on the APC profile page if you really want to get into the deep stuff.
If AA hires consistently it'll take:
9 months to cover the 824 agreement (30/mo)
36 months to cover PP agreement (25/mo)
28 months 2013-present (15-10/mo variable based on size)
6 years to flow is in the general ballpark. Attrition at Envoy and random months of no hiring at AA could move those numbers in either direction. Typically the closer a pilot is to flowing the less likely they are to go elsewhere. CA attrition outside of flow is usually single digits per month. CA upgrade seems to be the cutoff where attrition drops.
Zombie apocalypses, unforeseen economic collapses and theories about management stopping the flow altogether could change it even more but good luck predicting those things.
2001-84
No hiring 9/3/01-1/3/04
2004-104
2005-58
2006-106
2007-222
2008-124
No hiring 5/12/08-3/15/10
2010-98
2011-271
2013/current-352
The "824" group that gets to carry their vacation and sick accrual rates and get 50% metered to 30/month comes to an end sometime early summer 2017 and the switches to the protected pilot group which flows at 50% metered to 25/month. That agreement essentially covers pilots hired through 2011. From 2013 onward it comes out to around 15/month, the agreements are posted on the APC profile page if you really want to get into the deep stuff.
If AA hires consistently it'll take:
9 months to cover the 824 agreement (30/mo)
36 months to cover PP agreement (25/mo)
28 months 2013-present (15-10/mo variable based on size)
6 years to flow is in the general ballpark. Attrition at Envoy and random months of no hiring at AA could move those numbers in either direction. Typically the closer a pilot is to flowing the less likely they are to go elsewhere. CA attrition outside of flow is usually single digits per month. CA upgrade seems to be the cutoff where attrition drops.
Zombie apocalypses, unforeseen economic collapses and theories about management stopping the flow altogether could change it even more but good luck predicting those things.
For the visual people, this is the chart recruitment uses in a marketing brochure:
Flow Chart.pdf
EDIT: Can't seem to find a way to attach the high resolution version. Standby 1...
RE-EDIT: Attached as .pdf
Last edited by inky13; 08-31-2016 at 02:45 PM.
08-31-2016 | 02:37 PM
#4782
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
I am suppose to be in Sept class, and due to recent changes which strongly disappoints me as i expected and interviewed to get DFW base.
E175 would have been nice, but i would take the E145 to be based in DFW and limit my commute, in fact i was planning to move to DFW for better QOL.
Now, after hiring for DFW all summer and during the time i applied, Pilot Recruitment Administrator says only ORD is being offered in September. Also she said that the Newhire class Monday all are going to ORD, that I should expect that for all of September also.
I Agreeed to take the next class, due to these changes I WILL be looking at the other 3 airline offers i recieved, as they have the base I want.
I'd hate to be based in ORD. As i'm purley focused on QOL and base assignment. Envoy seems to be shooting themselves in the foot in terms of Recruitment! IT JUST STARTED GROWING AND STABLIZING.
I would love seniority at Envoy DFW base, flowing in 7-8 yrs down the line does not bother me (personal preference) as mass hiring will occure btw 2019-2025 anyways. Each person is different and have different needs. Mine is not to move to ORD or commute 3:30 mins to ORD from the SW.
I was told i can bid for DFW E145 after IOE while based in ORD and i should no problem getting it.
I honestly feel like i'm being lied to. So i'm coming on here to ask my fellow experienced pilots at Envoy not recruiting. Because i understand they could say anything to seal the deal. I don't blame them, recruiters sometimes work with limited info. So they can't provide certain answers. Answers which may work against sealing the deal.
I need the truth here. I feel like i wasnt given the full truth. A few pgs back i read that its more like 7-9 months of seniority in ORD E145 to bid and hold (transfer to) to DFW E145. Not "out of IOE you'll most likely be able to hold DFW." Don't tell me what i want to hear, tell me the truth.
Which is the truth? PLEASE ADVISE.
I'll be taking a look at the other regional offers now, due to these changes. Envoy was my #1 choice. Not sure now.
Sent from my Samsung Note7 using Tapatalk
E175 would have been nice, but i would take the E145 to be based in DFW and limit my commute, in fact i was planning to move to DFW for better QOL.
Now, after hiring for DFW all summer and during the time i applied, Pilot Recruitment Administrator says only ORD is being offered in September. Also she said that the Newhire class Monday all are going to ORD, that I should expect that for all of September also.
I Agreeed to take the next class, due to these changes I WILL be looking at the other 3 airline offers i recieved, as they have the base I want.
I'd hate to be based in ORD. As i'm purley focused on QOL and base assignment. Envoy seems to be shooting themselves in the foot in terms of Recruitment! IT JUST STARTED GROWING AND STABLIZING.
I would love seniority at Envoy DFW base, flowing in 7-8 yrs down the line does not bother me (personal preference) as mass hiring will occure btw 2019-2025 anyways. Each person is different and have different needs. Mine is not to move to ORD or commute 3:30 mins to ORD from the SW.
I was told i can bid for DFW E145 after IOE while based in ORD and i should no problem getting it.
I honestly feel like i'm being lied to. So i'm coming on here to ask my fellow experienced pilots at Envoy not recruiting. Because i understand they could say anything to seal the deal. I don't blame them, recruiters sometimes work with limited info. So they can't provide certain answers. Answers which may work against sealing the deal.
I need the truth here. I feel like i wasnt given the full truth. A few pgs back i read that its more like 7-9 months of seniority in ORD E145 to bid and hold (transfer to) to DFW E145. Not "out of IOE you'll most likely be able to hold DFW." Don't tell me what i want to hear, tell me the truth.
Which is the truth? PLEASE ADVISE.
I'll be taking a look at the other regional offers now, due to these changes. Envoy was my #1 choice. Not sure now.
Sent from my Samsung Note7 using Tapatalk
08-31-2016 | 02:41 PM
#4783
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
From: 737
For those of you that have been dealt this hand, please voice your concerns with the recruitment department. I don't think the company is wanting to lose pilots over this in times like these.
08-31-2016 | 02:52 PM
#4784
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
congrats on the Allegiant pay rates, if you actually work there haha
08-31-2016 | 03:03 PM
#4785
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
This is a big gap between Envoy and PSA. Pilots at ENY I've heard have now been waiting for 16 years to flow, and PSA is only down to less than 10? Am I getting this right?
I see the gap from 08'-10' and hopefully that will fix things, but the way it looks, PSA will trumph Envoy's flow by DOH quicker.
I see the gap from 08'-10' and hopefully that will fix things, but the way it looks, PSA will trumph Envoy's flow by DOH quicker.
Envoy sends 4 to 5 times more pilots per month to AA. The DOH for Envoy's flow may be behind now, but it will catch up rather quickly.
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08-31-2016 | 03:04 PM
#4786
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
08-31-2016 | 03:05 PM
#4787
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
I am suppose to be in Sept class, and due to recent changes which strongly disappoints me as i expected and interviewed to get DFW base.
E175 would have been nice, but i would take the E145 to be based in DFW and limit my commute, in fact i was planning to move to DFW for better QOL.
Now, after hiring for DFW all summer and during the time i applied, Pilot Recruitment Administrator says only ORD is being offered in September. Also she said that the Newhire class Monday all are going to ORD, that I should expect that for all of September also.
I Agreeed to take the next class, due to these changes I WILL be looking at the other 3 airline offers i recieved, as they have the base I want.
I'd hate to be based in ORD. As i'm purley focused on QOL and base assignment. Envoy seems to be shooting themselves in the foot in terms of Recruitment! IT JUST STARTED GROWING AND STABLIZING.
I would love seniority at Envoy DFW base, flowing in 7-8 yrs down the line does not bother me (personal preference) as mass hiring will occure btw 2019-2025 anyways. Each person is different and have different needs. Mine is not to move to ORD or commute 3:30 mins to ORD from the SW.
I was told i can bid for DFW E145 after IOE while based in ORD and i should no problem getting it.
I honestly feel like i'm being lied to. So i'm coming on here to ask my fellow experienced pilots at Envoy not recruiting. Because i understand they could say anything to seal the deal. I don't blame them, recruiters sometimes work with limited info. So they can't provide certain answers. Answers which may work against sealing the deal.
I need the truth here. I feel like i wasnt given the full truth. A few pgs back i read that its more like 7-9 months of seniority in ORD E145 to bid and hold (transfer to) to DFW E145. Not "out of IOE you'll most likely be able to hold DFW." Don't tell me what i want to hear, tell me the truth.
Which is the truth? PLEASE ADVISE.
I'll be taking a look at the other regional offers now, due to these changes. Envoy was my #1 choice. Not sure now.
Sent from my Samsung Note7 using Tapatalk
E175 would have been nice, but i would take the E145 to be based in DFW and limit my commute, in fact i was planning to move to DFW for better QOL.
Now, after hiring for DFW all summer and during the time i applied, Pilot Recruitment Administrator says only ORD is being offered in September. Also she said that the Newhire class Monday all are going to ORD, that I should expect that for all of September also.
I Agreeed to take the next class, due to these changes I WILL be looking at the other 3 airline offers i recieved, as they have the base I want.
I'd hate to be based in ORD. As i'm purley focused on QOL and base assignment. Envoy seems to be shooting themselves in the foot in terms of Recruitment! IT JUST STARTED GROWING AND STABLIZING.
I would love seniority at Envoy DFW base, flowing in 7-8 yrs down the line does not bother me (personal preference) as mass hiring will occure btw 2019-2025 anyways. Each person is different and have different needs. Mine is not to move to ORD or commute 3:30 mins to ORD from the SW.
I was told i can bid for DFW E145 after IOE while based in ORD and i should no problem getting it.
I honestly feel like i'm being lied to. So i'm coming on here to ask my fellow experienced pilots at Envoy not recruiting. Because i understand they could say anything to seal the deal. I don't blame them, recruiters sometimes work with limited info. So they can't provide certain answers. Answers which may work against sealing the deal.
I need the truth here. I feel like i wasnt given the full truth. A few pgs back i read that its more like 7-9 months of seniority in ORD E145 to bid and hold (transfer to) to DFW E145. Not "out of IOE you'll most likely be able to hold DFW." Don't tell me what i want to hear, tell me the truth.
Which is the truth? PLEASE ADVISE.
I'll be taking a look at the other regional offers now, due to these changes. Envoy was my #1 choice. Not sure now.
Sent from my Samsung Note7 using Tapatalk
The only thing that would hamper you coming back to DFW is if you got stuck on the CRJ.
Hope this helps.
08-31-2016 | 03:12 PM
#4788
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
Not sure what to tell you guys that were coming for the DFW base and are now being told you'll be put in ORD. I'm sure you feel burned and wouldn't blame you for moving on.
That being said, I've commuted 2 hrs to DFW and now 3.5 hrs to ORD for the last 3 years. It kinda sucks, but I live where I want and hold a commutable line with 14-15 days off most months.
Living in base can be great, but I don't mind my commute. I don't want to do it for my whole career, but it's not so bad for now.
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08-31-2016 | 04:28 PM
#4789
New Hire
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Truth of the matter is that they told all the interviewees that they could chose to have domicile of choice.
Then they take it away and say "sorry."
Yes, it would be nice if they would honor they're word. Its all very unfortunate. I feel for the recruiters also. Has to seem at least a little embarrassing on there end.
Take the above advice in regards to commuting out of ORD, having 15 days of, living where you want, blah blah blah with a grain of salt.
You will be junior and commuting to reserve. Commuting to sit in a crash pad sucks or reserve anyway sucks.
Working for a regional that is going out of business or is bottom of the industry to be based out of DFW are lousy options also.
Best of luck with your choices. Ha
Then they take it away and say "sorry."
Yes, it would be nice if they would honor they're word. Its all very unfortunate. I feel for the recruiters also. Has to seem at least a little embarrassing on there end.
Take the above advice in regards to commuting out of ORD, having 15 days of, living where you want, blah blah blah with a grain of salt.
You will be junior and commuting to reserve. Commuting to sit in a crash pad sucks or reserve anyway sucks.
Working for a regional that is going out of business or is bottom of the industry to be based out of DFW are lousy options also.
Best of luck with your choices. Ha
08-31-2016 | 04:47 PM
#4790
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
From: newYORK
Yes, it would be nice if they would honor they're word. Its all very unfortunate. I feel for the recruiters also. Has to seem at least a little embarrassing on there end.
Take the above advice in regards to commuting out of ORD, having 15 days of, living where you want, blah blah blah with a grain of salt.
no base is ever GUARANTEED! base assignments come and go via displacements or worse, base closures!!!
...start looking at your other two "DFW" options, especially MESA - entitled millennial
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